Turn it on Again- A Genesis Forum
Other Bands >> Progressive Rock Discussion >> Critics ignore prog (rant)
http://genesisgts.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=prog&action=display&num=1472571075

Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by FatOldLady on Aug 30th, 2016, 10:31am

The past few days I have been reviewing several 'best artists of all time', 'best guitarists of all time' and those kinds of lists. And as I investigated I noticed one inexplicable trend: Prog bands and guitarists were not on these lists by so-called music experts. One of the most adventurous, innovative, influential, and complex musical genres was relegated to second-tier status. Why? I can't come up with a satisfactory explanation myself. Too hard for them to understand? Too 'pretentious' for them? I don't know... Maybe you guys are smarter than me and can comprehend the logic behind this? Thanks! huh
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by slowdancer on Aug 30th, 2016, 11:19am

There is no logic in this. We all have to accept, that progressive rock has become sort of a niche genre, with a relative small amount of followers in comparison to main stream music. While bands like Yes and Genesis and others were big acts in the seventies and eighties, prog became more and more unimportant in later years. Bands like Marillion brought prog back to the perception of many in the mid - eighties, but only for a relatively short time. A lot of people, I know, who know Marillion are astounded, if I tell them, that they carried on in the nineties with Steve Hogarth and still exist.

A lot of artists, I admire, deserve a star in the concrete of Sunset Boulevard, but 10 yards down the road, nobody ever heard of them. And that probably includes the critics, you mentioned above.

Frustrating.
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by Noni on Aug 30th, 2016, 1:40pm

This is a subject which always hits a nerve. There are a few new bands that have been impressive in the popular genre and I've even noticed rap music improved a lot compared to the 90s.

I think mainly the length of the track may have something to do with this. People don't want long songs or music as these are easier to play on the radio. Another reason is money, every one wants the slice of the pie, prog bands often make and produce their own stuff and do not promote their music to a wider stream of people. So us as fans rely on web-sites.
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by NoSonOfVine on Aug 30th, 2016, 6:57pm

For me, at least, the primary reason why prog is frequently ignored is this: the genre just doesn't tick the boxes that most music listeners want ticked. It aims to tick boxes that only specific listeners want ticked, and often avoids certain boxes that people expect in music.

Now, what do the vast majority of music listeners want in music? A catchy and/or repetitive beat, a memorable opening, a 3-4 minute length, a solo that everyone can hum, lyrics that most people can relate to and/or understand (falling in love, heartbreak, getting intoxicated, partying, societal issues, depression, etc.), a popular music video and a singer whose appearance and/or voice is easily recognisable. Even songs that don't tick all the boxes can qualify - as long as they tick the main ones, that's good enough.

And what boxes do fans of prog want ticked? Prog fans want uniqueness, professionalism and tons of substance. They want to hear music that takes them to new worlds and expands upon and analyses concepts barely touched upon by other musicians. They want long, intricate, inventive tracks brimming with detail and intrigue, songs that constantly evolve. And that's why prog is ignored, because it deliberately goes against so much of what most people love about music that even top reviewers who compile these lists of best albums/guitarists/bands, just cannot get behind the genre. For a long time, I didn't get it, either. Why listen to one 20-minute song when you can listen to six 3-minute songs? 3 minutes is long enough, right?

Prog is a different world. If you showed a fan of classic rock, hard rock and heavy metal Mad Man Moon, they'd think "Where's the riff? How do I rock out to this? What's it about? Where's the chorus? What's the point of it?" Since it doesn't tick the expected boxes, it won't make a "best songs ever" list - despite it arguably being one of the finest pieces of music ever written in history. Then take Free's All Right Now... "Ah, there's the riff, there's the chorus, it's simple, I can understand the lyrics, it's over quickly, and I can instantly remember how it goes! One of the best songs ever! Let's play it to death on the radio!"

Being a fan of prog doesn't mean sacrificing a love for other genres, of course, nor does it mean that prog is always superior (I can name several prog albums that disappointed me). It's just that for most people, the genre just isn't considered necessary because of the pop/rock hit comfort zone. To a lot of people, change is considered bad, scary, insulting, even - if you were to make a list of the 100 best albums ever and not include albums like London Calling, Rumours and Never Mind The Bollocks, you'd be met with a lot of complaints, because the world decided that albums like those cannot be outdone by anyone, ever, mostly due to mass nostalgia. These music "experts" are forced to include them just to satisfy the expectations of the readers, who are ready to pounce and accuse.
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by onetwothree on Aug 31st, 2016, 06:40am

Brilliant assessment, NoSon.

That goes along with a thought I've often had: The vast majority of music is targeted at, and bought by, people who aren't really "music people" at all.
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by boredatwork on Aug 31st, 2016, 08:06am

on Aug 30th, 2016, 6:57pm, NoSonOfVine wrote:
Then take Free's All Right Now... "Ah, there's the riff, there's the chorus, it's simple, I can understand the lyrics, it's over quickly, and I can instantly remember how it goes! One of the best songs ever! Let's play it to death on the radio!"

I’d dispute that - All Right Now seems to drag on interminably laugh

But there's one other essential thing to add about prog: most people like to hear a good tune now & again, even if it’s only a brief snatch. Large amounts of both prog & indeed classical music fail in this respect, going on for too long without offering ordinary music listeners anything they can latch onto. So the whole genre unfairly gets a reputation for being boring. Whereas early Genesis, as one prog-hating critic grudgingly conceded “were never far from a good tune” which is probably why they appeal to people like me when they finally listen to them. wink
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by Schrottrocker on Aug 31st, 2016, 09:31am

on Aug 31st, 2016, 06:40am, onetwothree wrote:
That goes along with a thought I've often had: The vast majority of music is targeted at, and bought by, people who aren't really "music people" at all.


That's an interesting point. I've been talking with some friends of mine about this, we agreed that fusion jazz (jazz rock, jazz funk...) in particular seems to be that sort of "music for musicians" because mainstream people seem to be unable to handle it but musicians love it as it gives liberty to the performing musicians to play all the "real interesting stuff".
However, prog lovers often seem to have a problem to deal with jazz too. Prog is the paradise for composers and arrangers, not so much for improvisers though, in that way it's closer to classical music. But do prog lovers like classical music at all?... It's all a bit complicated.
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by Noni on Aug 31st, 2016, 10:41am

on Aug 31st, 2016, 09:31am, Schrottrocker wrote:
That's an interesting point. I've been talking with some friends of mine about this, we agreed that fusion jazz (jazz rock, jazz funk...) in particular seems to be that sort of "music for musicians" because mainstream people seem to be unable to handle it but musicians love it as it gives liberty to the performing musicians to play all the "real interesting stuff".
However, prog lovers often seem to have a problem to deal with jazz too. Prog is the paradise for composers and arrangers, not so much for improvisers though, in that way it's closer to classical music. But do prog lovers like classical music at all?... It's all a bit complicated.


Sorry Schrottrocker, not sure what you mean here. There are quite a few Jazz related prog bands out there.
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by onetwothree on Aug 31st, 2016, 12:11pm

on Aug 31st, 2016, 09:31am, Schrottrocker wrote:
Prog is the paradise for composers and arrangers, not so much for improvisers though, in that way it's closer to classical music. But do prog lovers like classical music at all?

Well, for what it's worth, I personally dislike most classical music.

I also tend to like jazz-rock better than actual jazz.
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by FeelItComing on Aug 31st, 2016, 5:22pm

I don't have the extensive knowledge of prog that most people here have. But I do love classical music and I have to say, my favourite classical music works are the pieces which - guess what - tend to have strong melodic themes; hence Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, Tchaikovsky & perhaps most obvious of all, Dvorak's New World Symphony. If that makes me a populist when it comes to classical music rather than a purist, so be it. Even my favourite violin & piano concertos, suich as Tchaikovsky's & Rachmaninov's, have the compelling tunes which draw you into them.

It's the same with opera. I prefer the big choruses rather than individual arias (e.g. Soldiers' Chorus from Faust, Anvil Chorus from Il Trovatore, Grand March from Aida, Patria Oppressa from Macbeth).
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by foxfeeder on Sep 1st, 2016, 08:20am

NSOV makes many good points, but I suspect there's also a "kings new clothes" element going on, whereby organisations like the BBC have for years said things like "punk killed prog, and good thing too!" and many people are loath to argue. As it happens, however, the Beeb seem to be opening their minds these days. Maybe, one day..................
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by Schrottrocker on Sep 1st, 2016, 08:55am

I wonder where this attitude of the British music press originated from that punk is the holy grail of music history. Nothing against punk but I feel British journalists have put it on a pedestal for decades over everything else. rolleyes
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by FeelItComing on Sep 1st, 2016, 6:17pm

They thought it was more representative of 'the street' just as the US music press thought the same about Bruce Springsteen. They thought that type of music was more reflective of the lives of 'real people'. They thought that if they identified & championed this type of music their 'street cred' would skyrocket, never mind the quality of the music.
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by Schrottrocker on Sep 2nd, 2016, 09:41am

"Street cred" is overrated. grin Yea it's really something you could and still can observe in German journalism too - rock'n'roll has to be sweaty, it has to be the honest voice of rebelling workers who can't read sheet but let their hormons speak... tongue It's the same reason rappers get idolized by the press, it's some myth journalists have been sticking to forever. I don't get it.
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by FatOldLady on Sep 2nd, 2016, 09:55am

on Sep 1st, 2016, 6:17pm, FeelItComing wrote:
They thought it was more representative of 'the street' just as the US music press thought the same about Bruce Springsteen. They thought that type of music was more reflective of the lives of 'real people'. They thought that if they identified & championed this type of music their 'street cred' would skyrocket, never mind the quality of the music.


Totally agree. Critics always enjoy pumping up their egos and reputations. If they had genuine opinions, Genesis and Pink Floyd might have made another album(s) (let's remember how critics completely destroyed CAS and The Division Bell).
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by Synth Solo on Oct 24th, 2016, 8:16pm

on Aug 30th, 2016, 11:19am, slowdancer wrote:
There is no logic in this. We all have to accept, that progressive rock has become sort of a niche genre, with a relative small amount of followers in comparison to main stream music. While bands like Yes and Genesis and others were big acts in the seventies and eighties, prog became more and more unimportant in later years. Bands like Marillion brought prog back to the perception of many in the mid - eighties, but only for a relatively short time. A lot of people, I know, who know Marillion are astounded, if I tell them, that they carried on in the nineties with Steve Hogarth and still exist.



Part of the problem with prog is that a lot of people aren't sure what is prog and what isn't. Marillion were a good example. To most people outside of prog, Marillion were a prog band and therefore deeply uncool and to be avoided at all costs. To a lot of the first wave of prog fans, Marillion were a derivative and totally shit band who weren't fit to be called prog. grin
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by CountingOutTime on Oct 25th, 2016, 09:44am

on Oct 24th, 2016, 8:16pm, Synth Solo wrote:
Part of the problem with prog is that a lot of people aren't sure what is prog and what isn't. Marillion were a good example. To most people outside of prog, Marillion were a prog band and therefore deeply uncool and to be avoided at all costs. To a lot of the first wave of prog fans, Marillion were a derivative and totally shit band who weren't fit to be called prog. grin


I am in the group of fans who feel Marillion haven't been prog since Fish's departure.
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by Noni on Oct 25th, 2016, 10:25am

on Oct 24th, 2016, 8:16pm, Synth Solo wrote:
Part of the problem with prog is that a lot of people aren't sure what is prog and what isn't. Marillion were a good example. To most people outside of prog, Marillion were a prog band and therefore deeply uncool and to be avoided at all costs. To a lot of the first wave of prog fans, Marillion were a derivative and totally shit band who weren't fit to be called prog. grin


Marillion after Fish's departure has lost the tempo of traditional prog, but I do like Hogarth's voice and some of later Marillion's music.. I still prefer their earlier music and to say they are not progressive, I do not agree.

The definition of Progressive music is various time signatures like classical music. This is why you see a lot of bands in Progressive Archives web site!.... How that is reflected in the music is up to the listener.
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by rael1974 on Oct 25th, 2016, 8:41pm

A lot of people aren't even aware of music outside of the mainstream. This was me at one point in time. I think casual listeners would be more open to progressive rock and similar music if it were represented in mainstream music and radio. There have been instances where progressive rocks songs and other longer, complex, or unorthodox songs became hits. Some examples include:

"A Day In The Life" - The Beatles
"Foreplay/Long Time" - Boston
"Lucky Man" - ELP
"From The Beginning" - ELP
"I Know What I Like" - Genesis
"Mama" - Genesis
"Locomotive Breath" - Jethro Tull
"Carry On My Wayward Son" - Kansas
"Stairway To Heaven" - Led Zeppelin
"Kashmir" - Led Zeppelin
"Free Bird" - Lynyrd Skynyrd
"Tuesday Afternoon" - The Moody Blues
"Nights In White Satin" - The Moody Blues
"Time" - Pink Floyd
"Wish You Were Here" - Pink Floyd
"Bohemian Rhapsody" - Queen
"Tom Sawyer" - Rush
"Lime Light" - Rush
"Come Sail Away" - Styx
"I've Seen All Good People" - Yes
"Roundabout" - Yes
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by foxfeeder on Oct 26th, 2016, 08:38am

on Oct 25th, 2016, 8:41pm, rael1974 wrote:
A lot of people aren't even aware of music outside of the mainstream. This was me at one point in time. I think casual listeners would be more open to progressive rock and similar music if it were represented in mainstream music and radio. There have been instances where progressive rocks songs and other longer, complex, or unorthodox songs became hits. Some examples include:

"A Day In The Life" - The Beatles
"Foreplay/Long Time" - Boston
"Lucky Man" - ELP
"From The Beginning" - ELP
"I Know What I Like" - Genesis
"Mama" - Genesis
"Locomotive Breath" - Jethro Tull
"Carry On My Wayward Son" - Kansas
"Stairway To Heaven" - Led Zeppelin
"Kashmir" - Led Zeppelin
"Free Bird" - Lynyrd Skynyrd
"Tuesday Afternoon" - The Moody Blues
"Nights In White Satin" - The Moody Blues
"Time" - Pink Floyd
"Wish You Were Here" - Pink Floyd
"Bohemian Rhapsody" - Queen
"Tom Sawyer" - Rush
"Lime Light" - Rush
"Come Sail Away" - Styx
"I've Seen All Good People" - Yes
"Roundabout" - Yes


Add to that list, among others:

Music - John Miles
I'm Mandy, Fly me - 10cc
Band on the run - Wings
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by CountingOutTime on Oct 26th, 2016, 10:11am

on Oct 25th, 2016, 8:41pm, rael1974 wrote:
A lot of people aren't even aware of music outside of the mainstream. This was me at one point in time. I think casual listeners would be more open to progressive rock and similar music if it were represented in mainstream music and radio. There have been instances where progressive rocks songs and other longer, complex, or unorthodox songs became hits. Some examples include:

"A Day In The Life" - The Beatles
"Foreplay/Long Time" - Boston
"Lucky Man" - ELP
"From The Beginning" - ELP
"I Know What I Like" - Genesis
"Mama" - Genesis
"Locomotive Breath" - Jethro Tull
"Carry On My Wayward Son" - Kansas
"Stairway To Heaven" - Led Zeppelin
"Kashmir" - Led Zeppelin
"Free Bird" - Lynyrd Skynyrd
"Tuesday Afternoon" - The Moody Blues
"Nights In White Satin" - The Moody Blues
"Time" - Pink Floyd
"Wish You Were Here" - Pink Floyd
"Bohemian Rhapsody" - Queen
"Tom Sawyer" - Rush
"Lime Light" - Rush
"Come Sail Away" - Styx
"I've Seen All Good People" - Yes
"Roundabout" - Yes


The problem lies wherein the radio version is almost always abbreviated. I remember the days when they would play full length versions of songs like Nights In White Satin on the radio.
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by HENRY on Oct 26th, 2016, 4:05pm

on Oct 25th, 2016, 8:41pm, rael1974 wrote:
A lot of people aren't even aware of music outside of the mainstream. This was me at one point in time. I think casual listeners would be more open to progressive rock and similar music if it were represented in mainstream music and radio. There have been instances where progressive rocks songs and other longer, complex, or unorthodox songs became hits. Some examples include:

"A Day In The Life" - The Beatles
"Foreplay/Long Time" - Boston
"Lucky Man" - ELP
"From The Beginning" - ELP
"I Know What I Like" - Genesis
"Mama" - Genesis
"Locomotive Breath" - Jethro Tull
"Carry On My Wayward Son" - Kansas
"Stairway To Heaven" - Led Zeppelin
"Kashmir" - Led Zeppelin
"Free Bird" - Lynyrd Skynyrd
"Tuesday Afternoon" - The Moody Blues
"Nights In White Satin" - The Moody Blues
"Time" - Pink Floyd
"Wish You Were Here" - Pink Floyd
"Bohemian Rhapsody" - Queen
"Tom Sawyer" - Rush
"Lime Light" - Rush
"Come Sail Away" - Styx
"I've Seen All Good People" - Yes
"Roundabout" - Yes


Well, a lot of those songs weren't quite "hits", but rather just well known, favorite songs from those bands. And it would be a stretch to consider them particularly "complex" or "unorthodox". For the most part, you just listed a bunch of catchy, popular tunes by bands typically associated with or identified as "prog".
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by FeelItComing on Oct 26th, 2016, 4:39pm

That is the first time I've ever seen Band On The Run associated with prog.
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by rael1974 on Oct 26th, 2016, 7:22pm

on Oct 26th, 2016, 4:05pm, HENRY wrote:
Well, a lot of those songs weren't quite "hits", but rather just well known, favorite songs from those bands. And it would be a stretch to consider them particularly "complex" or "unorthodox". For the most part, you just listed a bunch of catchy, popular tunes by bands typically associated with or identified as "prog".


That's true. I should've been more specific. What I meant by "complex" and "unorthodox" was that these songs offered things that were different than a standard pop hit. Obviously none of these songs are on the same level as "Supper's Ready" or "Close To The Edge".
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by foxfeeder on Oct 27th, 2016, 07:20am

on Oct 26th, 2016, 4:39pm, FeelItComing wrote:
That is the first time I've ever seen Band On The Run associated with prog.

You heard it here first! grin
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by onetwothree on Oct 27th, 2016, 12:10pm

on Oct 26th, 2016, 10:11am, CountingOutTime wrote:
I remember the days when they would play full length versions of songs like Nights In White Satin on the radio.

Bad example. The "full version" of "Nights In White Satin" is actually that song plus the spoken piece "Late Lament."

From the same album, radio stations also used to play the "full version" of "Tuesday Afternoon," which was actually that song plus the next one.

Blame it on the confusing titling/track division on the original album.

But I know what you mean.
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by CountingOutTime on Oct 27th, 2016, 12:23pm

on Oct 27th, 2016, 12:10pm, onetwothree wrote:
Bad example. The "full version" of "Nights In White Satin" is actually that song plus the spoken piece "Late Lament."

From the same album, radio stations also used to play the "full version" of "Tuesday Afternoon," which was actually that song plus the next one.

Blame it on the confusing titling/track division on the original album.

But I know what you mean.


Yep. You're correct. On radio station KMET (now defunct) here in SoCal they used to play "Late Lament" after "Nights In White Satin." Thanks for pointing that out.


Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by FeelItComing on Oct 27th, 2016, 4:52pm

on Oct 27th, 2016, 07:20am, foxfeeder wrote:
You heard it here first! grin


But why? Is it because it's divided into several sections? I am passionate about it & have loved it since I heard it when it was first released, but I've never thought of it as 'prog'. The song, that is. Now I think about it both the album & Venus & Mars could perhaps be said to have vaguely prog elements.
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by foxfeeder on Oct 28th, 2016, 07:14am

on Oct 27th, 2016, 4:52pm, FeelItComing wrote:
But why? Is it because it's divided into several sections? I am passionate about it & have loved it since I heard it when it was first released, but I've never thought of it as 'prog'. The song, that is. Now I think about it both the album & Venus & Mars could perhaps be said to have vaguely prog elements.


Well, the sectional thing is one element that defines prog. And, after all, the Beatles were one of the pioneers of prog, by striving beyond the simple 3 minute pop song, so I'd say it's credentials are there. There are lots of proggy singles in the 70's, another that was missed is Question by the Moody blues.

Incidentally, in reply to the "full version of "Nights" points, Graeme Edge maintains the reason it was a hit again in 72 is because one DJ in the US used it as his "go to the loo" track, due to it's length. Also, the only time I've come across the standard, single edit version (without the orchestra coming in after line one of the final verse) on CD is on "Ballads"
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by DREAMER on Oct 28th, 2016, 12:43pm

on Oct 26th, 2016, 4:39pm, FeelItComing wrote:
That is the first time I've ever seen Band On The Run associated with prog.


I've always thought it was quite proggy. In the same way as 10cc's I'm Mandy Fly Me, John Miles Music and of course, Queen's Bo Rhap.
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by FeelItComing on Oct 28th, 2016, 4:40pm

Would anyone consider the Eagles' Journey Of The Sorcerer or the title track of Long Road Out Of Eden to have prog elements? For the most part they were the opposite of anything prog related but those two songs sprang to mind.

Some Eagles fans don't like the song LROOE because it has elements of Middle Eastern music which reflect the song's lyrics about the war in Iraq. They think it makes the song 'drag'. I would hope I would get opposite opinions here, perhaps! (It was released in 2007 so it obviously isn't 70s).
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by CountingOutTime on Oct 28th, 2016, 4:47pm

on Oct 28th, 2016, 4:40pm, FeelItComing wrote:
Would anyone consider the Eagles' Journey Of The Sorcerer or the title track of Long Road Out Of Eden to have prog elements? For the most part they were the opposite of anything prog related but those two songs sprang to mind.

Some Eagles fans don't like the song LROOE because it has elements of Middle Eastern music which reflect the song's lyrics about the war in Iraq. They think it makes the song 'drag'. I would hope I would get opposite opinions here, perhaps! (It was released in 2007 so it obviously isn't 70s).


IMO, The Eagles never did anything that would be considered prog, but they were certainly progressive in their genres of country rock and soft rock. I love The Long Road Out Of Eden album and just about every song on it, but I wouldn't call it prog.
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by foxfeeder on Oct 29th, 2016, 1:44pm

on Oct 28th, 2016, 4:40pm, FeelItComing wrote:
Would anyone consider the Eagles' Journey Of The Sorcerer or the title track of Long Road Out Of Eden to have prog elements? For the most part they were the opposite of anything prog related but those two songs sprang to mind.

Some Eagles fans don't like the song LROOE because it has elements of Middle Eastern music which reflect the song's lyrics about the war in Iraq. They think it makes the song 'drag'. I would hope I would get opposite opinions here, perhaps! (It was released in 2007 so it obviously isn't 70s).


For people in the UK at least, Sorcerer is forever associated with the radio series of Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy. I've never heard the full thing, (listening now on Youtube.) but I could see it being considered prog by some. This is the thing with prog: It's such a broad church, and one man's prog is another man's classic rock/psychedelia etc.
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by Backdrifter on Feb 14th, 2017, 08:54am

Some of the things touched on in a 'genres' thread on this forum are highlighted here, particularly the question of what prog "is". It surely can't be pinned down to multiple time signatures or multiple sections. By that measure, prog songs would include The Show by Girls Aloud, Silver Star by The Four Seasons, Hey Ya by Outkast, Everybody Wants To Rule The World by Tears For Fears, Say A Little Prayer by Aretha Franklin... etc etc.

As to critics ignoring prog, I don't generally read or watch critics, certainly not music ones anyway. There's certainly been a bit of sniffiness about prog rock, except where certain prog acts are regarded as being at the 'cooler', more acceptable end of the spectrum. Floyd seem to manage this, and Dark Side will often crop up in 'best album' lists; Crimson King seems to still be held up as some sort of key moment in rock music. For me, it's more that specifically Genesis hardly seem to trouble any of those lists unless it's specifically a 'prog albums' list.

People are of course wrong to parrot this thing about punk "killing off" prog rock. Punk/new wave gave people something else to listen to - it would often be referred to as 'alternative rock' - and some bands that kind of withered a bit in the late 70s were probably going to expire anyway. Whereas Yes, Genesis and ELP all had their first big chart hits and played huge sell-out shows during and after the punk explosion. I think some music press journos resented this, and made these bands into targets for not playing ball and dying, and I think that has kind of persisted to this day.
Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
Post by Synth Solo on May 9th, 2017, 07:45am

on Oct 25th, 2016, 09:44am, CountingOutTime wrote:
I am in the group of fans who feel Marillion haven't been prog since Fish's departure.


on Oct 25th, 2016, 10:25am, Noni wrote:
Marillion after Fish's departure has lost the tempo of traditional prog, but I do like Hogarth's voice and some of later Marillion's music.. I still prefer their earlier music and to say they are not progressive, I do not agree.


I don't care whether Marillion are regarded as prog or not now. I just think they became an overall better band with their own identity, whereas in the Fish days they were widely perceived as a poor man's Genesis.

Whether people like the Hogarth version or not, no one can seriously call them Genesis clones 1989 onwards. Unless they're deaf or a bit thick. Hogarth brought with him very different influences.