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Feb 22nd, 2018, 2:56pm



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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Me and Sarah Jane  (Read 1709 times)
Merryman72
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xx Re: Me and Sarah Jane
« Reply #30 on: Dec 20th, 2017, 10:42am »

on Dec 20th, 2017, 05:28am, Backdrifter wrote:
That's not being pedantic, horribly or otherwise. It's correct, and I included the Encore tour in my "1 to 2 tours after first appearance" by not counting the Duke tour as this was the first appearance. That's being pedantic!


Ahh ok, I guess I just misunderstood the criteria for the list then!
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xx Re: Me and Sarah Jane
« Reply #31 on: Dec 20th, 2017, 10:45am »

on Dec 20th, 2017, 10:06am, foxfeeder wrote:
Blood on the Rooftops was never going to be played after Steve left. They'd have to acknowledge his existence if they played it! wink

I don't know whether that's the case, after all they played Entangled for a while, that's Steve's and Tony's, while BOTR is Steve's and Phil's. Personally, it's a song I enjoy very much quietly, without people screaming over the intro.
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xx Re: Me and Sarah Jane
« Reply #32 on: Dec 20th, 2017, 10:53am »

on Dec 20th, 2017, 10:08am, foxfeeder wrote:
As has been said before, Daryl is a fine, very capable guitarist, but SH he is not. Daryl is from the Patrick Moraz camp: "Why play 2 notes when 10000 will fit!"


Well, I think Daryl is technically superior to Steve but that doesn't mean much and I don't remember reading Steve is not an excellent player. I generally dislike Daryl's solos on FoF, particularly on the last tour, where he really cut loose. I think he misses the point completely and you are right, he is far too busy. I think we can chalk it up to the fact that it is one of the few moments when he gets to shine a bit.
Also, technique aside, he is very, very american in his playing and that song requires a different feel and sound imo.
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xx Re: Me and Sarah Jane
« Reply #33 on: Dec 20th, 2017, 3:36pm »

on Dec 20th, 2017, 10:53am, Fabrizio wrote:
Well, I think Daryl is technically superior to Steve but that doesn't mean much and I don't remember reading Steve is not an excellent player. I generally dislike Daryl's solos on FoF, particularly on the last tour, where he really cut loose. I think he misses the point completely and you are right, he is far too busy. I think we can chalk it up to the fact that it is one of the few moments when he gets to shine a bit.
Also, technique aside, he is very, very american in his playing and that song requires a different feel and sound imo.


Daryl fit in very well playing high-tempo jazz fusion with Jean-Luc Ponty.
Listening to those albums, I sometimes wonder if Daryl was bored playing a much more restrained type of music with Genesis.
Given his skills, I can understand why he would go on a bit of a tear, like at the end of Salmacis, when he was given the chance.
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xx Re: Me and Sarah Jane
« Reply #34 on: Dec 21st, 2017, 01:52am »

on Dec 20th, 2017, 10:08am, foxfeeder wrote:
As has been said before, Daryl is a fine, very capable guitarist, but SH he is not. Daryl is from the Patrick Moraz camp: "Why play 2 notes when 10000 will fit!"

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with this characterization.

Daryl, by no means, overplays his role within the band and its music. In fact, for the most part he is deliberately reigned in on playing beyond the established guitar parts. Yes, there are specific moments were he is given the freedom to stretch out a bit. So? I've seen and heard Steve do just as much with Genesis material on his solo tours. Why does Steve get a pass while Daryl gets scrutinized?

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xx Re: Me and Sarah Jane
« Reply #35 on: Dec 21st, 2017, 06:03am »

on Dec 21st, 2017, 01:52am, HENRY wrote:
Sorry, but I strongly disagree with this characterization.

Daryl, by no means, overplays his role within the band and its music. In fact, for the most part he is deliberately reigned in on playing beyond the established guitar parts. Yes, there are specific moments were he is given the freedom to stretch out a bit. So? I've seen and heard Steve do just as much with Genesis material on his solo tours. Why does Steve get a pass while Daryl gets scrutinized?



A fair point. While as I said I prefer SH's more economical originals to DS's takes, SH can indeed let rip a lot more when doing some of those tracks now. So yes he's not immune to it but I still always tend to prefer his originals. There's nothing "wrong" in principle with flexing their muscles a bit more on live takes, it's just a matter of whether the listener prefers this or not, in my case it's usually not.

Also, while generally finding DS's playing a bit characterless, I don't want to give the impression I'm doing him down too much - he could add some nice touches of colour and flair to certain tracks.
« Last Edit: Dec 21st, 2017, 06:03am by Backdrifter » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Me and Sarah Jane
« Reply #36 on: Dec 21st, 2017, 07:04am »

on Dec 21st, 2017, 01:52am, HENRY wrote:
Sorry, but I strongly disagree with this characterization.

Daryl, by no means, overplays his role within the band and its music. In fact, for the most part he is deliberately reigned in on playing beyond the established guitar parts. Yes, there are specific moments were he is given the freedom to stretch out a bit. So? I've seen and heard Steve do just as much with Genesis material on his solo tours. Why does Steve get a pass while Daryl gets scrutinized?



That's fine. You're entitled. I disagree with your disagreement though!

Of all Steve's recent versions of the old days, the only one that stands out as "wild and different" is the Albert Hall version of Supper's Ready, and, as Steve has said, the original studio version excluded parts in the final mix that he had recorded, so I'm guessing he was finally opening Panndora's Box on it.

As for Daryl, there was a version of the FOF solo he did alone which was posted on here (by me, I think) a couple of years ago, where the track was barely recognisable. Maybe some prefer it. Myself, I'm thankful Steve was the original creator, your mileage etc..............
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xx Re: Me and Sarah Jane
« Reply #37 on: Dec 21st, 2017, 07:05am »

on Dec 20th, 2017, 10:53am, Fabrizio wrote:
Well, I think Daryl is technically superior to Steve but that doesn't mean much and I don't remember reading Steve is not an excellent player. I generally dislike Daryl's solos on FoF, particularly on the last tour, where he really cut loose. I think he misses the point completely and you are right, he is far too busy. I think we can chalk it up to the fact that it is one of the few moments when he gets to shine a bit.
Also, technique aside, he is very, very american in his playing and that song requires a different feel and sound imo.


Neither do I.
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Ian

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xx Re: Me and Sarah Jane
« Reply #38 on: Dec 21st, 2017, 07:06am »

on Dec 20th, 2017, 3:36pm, Witchwood wrote:
Daryl fit in very well playing high-tempo jazz fusion with Jean-Luc Ponty.
Listening to those albums, I sometimes wonder if Daryl was bored playing a much more restrained type of music with Genesis.
Given his skills, I can understand why he would go on a bit of a tear, like at the end of Salmacis, when he was given the chance.


To be fair, I do like his take on FOS at the 1978 Reading Festival.
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« Reply #39 on: Dec 21st, 2017, 07:56am »

Daryl did a good job on Ripples and Carpet Crawlers, and I'm fine with his solos in In The Cage and It's Gonna Get Better. But he ruins Firth of Fifth and Moonlit Knight. He just doesn't do justice to what Steve created.
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xx Re: Me and Sarah Jane
« Reply #40 on: Dec 21st, 2017, 09:03am »

on Dec 20th, 2017, 3:36pm, Witchwood wrote:
I sometimes wonder if Daryl was bored playing a much more restrained type of music with Genesis.


He must have been I guess. Post-Hackett guitar parts are not exactly challenging or prominent for instance, so he is left with Steves's parts or solos specifically and he is a very different kind of guitarist. FoF solo in particular is highly revered, it is an integral part of the song, generally considered as important as the song itself. Throughout the years, it has achieved iconic status and I guess some fans, including myself, are quite territorial about it. In addition to that, Genesis live were never about wild improvisation, they pretty much tended to stick to the script and any slight variation felt somewhat organical, as it came directly from the musicians responsible for creating the song. Having a musician with a completely different background and feel ''tampering'' with that, might be disconcerting at times.....To some.
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« Reply #41 on: Dec 22nd, 2017, 02:27am »

The kind of solos Steve did at the time sound very merticulous and worked out and there's a real narrative to the Firth of Fifth solo so loses something when you have a guy coming in and kind of approximating but mostly just shredding (quite tediously imo). Most people are more sympathetic to guitarists embellishing their solos but for me it's no different than if Tony left and you had a guy "putting his own spin" on Apocalypse in 9/8, Cinema Show, Cage, Slippermen etc. If the solo was done like Rick Wakeman or something originally it would be no problem for someone to 'interpret' them but because I believe they are so planned out I prefer to hear them played as they were written.
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« Reply #42 on: Feb 16th, 2018, 04:31am »

on Dec 21st, 2017, 07:06am, foxfeeder wrote:
To be fair, I do like his take on FOS at the 1978 Reading Festival.

Sorry to nitpick - it was Knebworth (their only UK gig that year).

I remember reading they resurrected FoS on that tour, DS's first, to help reassure fans the guitar was in good hands.
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xx Re: Me and Sarah Jane
« Reply #43 on: Feb 16th, 2018, 07:21am »

on Feb 16th, 2018, 04:31am, Backdrifter wrote:
Sorry to nitpick - it was Knebworth (their only UK gig that year).

I remember reading they resurrected FoS on that tour, DS's first, to help reassure fans the guitar was in good hands.


Correct! Slip of the mind! wink
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xx Re: Me and Sarah Jane
« Reply #44 on: Feb 16th, 2018, 07:27am »

on Feb 16th, 2018, 04:31am, Backdrifter wrote:
I remember reading they resurrected FoS on that tour

Firth of Sixth?
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