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Snowman
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xx Phil's voice
« Thread started on: Feb 17th, 2017, 03:50am »

Collins voice was so lovely and pure in the early days, perhaps even more softer and more melodic than Peter.

Phil always said that PG taught him so much vocally.

After Duke his voice just became so raspy and ruined.

I asked a singer friend of mine a few years ago "what happened"

He answered simply - "Too long touring and stadium gigs and no real vocal training"

Sad but true I suppose. When you listen to "Ripples" his voice is so sweet and perfect
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FeelItComing
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xx Re: Phil's voice
« Reply #1 on: Feb 17th, 2017, 4:35pm »

I guess it's a matter of opinion, but I don't consider the voice which sings In The Air Tonight, I Don't Care Anymore & the remaining Genesis output 'ruined' and I would also disagree that the voice is 'raspy'. I think he got stronger & stronger as a singer.
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Snowman
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xx Re: Phil's voice
« Reply #2 on: Feb 17th, 2017, 7:01pm »

Well Ok

That is a good point

Perhaps I was unfair. I should not have said Phil's voice was ruined, that was my mistake.

It is just my personal opinion that the complex and melodic based music of Genesis (and Yes and Rush for that matter) lends itself better to a more softer lead singer's voice than raw bluesy rock singers like Joe Cocker, Paul Rodgers etc (Who incidentally I love both singers very much)

Again just my opinion

I agree with you though, Phil and Genesis have done some brilliant stuff after 1980. I love Invisible Touch and No Jacket Required as much as I love Trick and Lamb. I think many fans do like both era's, not just either or that is sometimes banded about

I hope this explains my original (rather crudely made) point

Cheers

Stevie smiley
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rael1974
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xx Re: Phil's voice
« Reply #3 on: Feb 18th, 2017, 6:11pm »

Personally, I think his voice was at it's best in the eighties and nineties. A great example (and my favorite) of this is his vocal performance on the live version of "Take Me Home". His voice is fantastic throughout the whole performance, but it's his voice at the ending encore that is absolutely beautiful. It's amazing how nearly perfect it sounds without any production.

Although I recommend watching and listening to the whole song, skip ahead to 6:14 if you're only interested in the encore.

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Snowman
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xx Re: Phil's voice
« Reply #4 on: Feb 18th, 2017, 8:38pm »

I had a top of the range Aiwa CAW 20 twin deck and FM radio around 1984.

It was a lot more than a ghetto blaster, the sound quality was as good as seperates and cost 300 quid.

Sadly the motors wore out, even though I had pre recorded CRO2 tapes, they never were as robust as vinyl.

First ones I bought were No Jacket, Big Lad in The Windmill by It Bites, The Power Station Album, Go West 1st album and Duke (although I already had that on vinyl).

Tape was pretty much a waste of time to be honest. However I still have my seperates from the early 80's and they still run well. Hi Fi stuff was made so much better quality in those days.

Anyway sorry for rambling.

So many great songs on No Jacket.

My band used to do "I don't wanna Know" and it always went down well, proof that you can write a pop/rock song in 6/4

Steve

Ripples, New York City, Snowbound and Follow You, still remain my favourites though XX
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xx Re: Phil's voice
« Reply #5 on: Feb 28th, 2017, 11:16am »

I too like PC's voice in the 80s and 90s. It seems 'fuller'. I get why people like the pre-1980 voice but personally I like that lighter, 'sweeter' vocal style less than the later style.
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xx Re: Phil's voice
« Reply #6 on: Mar 1st, 2017, 1:43pm »

on Feb 17th, 2017, 7:01pm, Snowman wrote:
It is just my personal opinion that the complex and melodic based music of Genesis (and Yes and Rush for that matter) lends itself better to a more softer lead singer's voice

Quite a number of Genesis' songs require some power and edge in the vocals. The knife, the end of the Musical Box, Hogweed, parts of Supper's ready to mention a few. They were all written with Peter's voice in mind or by Peter himself to the point that when Phil took over they were unsure he would have been able to handle the 'harder' stuff. I think Phil did a lovely job on Trick and W&W, I cannot help but wonder though what Squonk and Volcano could have been like with his 80s vocal style. He sounded not so great and a bit unconvinced on ATTW3 imo but he really became a singer on Duke, there are several songs on Abacab which for my money would be inlistenable if it wasn't for his vocal performance and Mama is imo something not so many singers can cope with. I heard several covers and they all fell short. As I wrote in another thread, I saw them live in 82 and everybody was talking about vocalists like Sting and Bono but Phil while not quite the natural frontman was no lesser singer.
« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2017, 1:53pm by Fabrizio » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Phil's voice
« Reply #7 on: Mar 2nd, 2017, 12:10pm »

The challenge for a singer in Genesis is that some material works very well with a soft, light approach (e.g., Carpet Crawlers, Ripples, Blood on the Rooftops) and some works much better with a bit of heft and grit (TLLDOB, Squonk). So early on, I think Phil sounded great with some material, but was a little weaker on others. As his voice became grittier and fuller, he sang some material better (e.g., In the Cage) and sounded a bit rough on other stuff (e.g., Ripples on the Duke tour). Much of the 80s and 90s material worked well with the harder-edged approach (e.g., Mama, Tonight, Feeding the Fire). Mind you, he could still sing some stuff with a lighter touch (e.g., Hold On My Heart).

Interestingly, by the 2007 tour, he was weaker vocally and no longer had the same strength and heft in his voice. So songs like Mama and In the Cage didn't quite sound as good whereas songs like Ripples sounded better again.
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Fabrizio
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xx Re: Phil's voice
« Reply #8 on: Mar 2nd, 2017, 3:22pm »

on Mar 2nd, 2017, 12:10pm, Dr. John wrote:
Fire)
Interestingly, by the 2007 tour, he was weaker vocally and no longer had the same strength and heft in his voice. So songs like Mama and In the Cage didn't quite sound as good whereas songs like Ripples sounded better again.

True, his voice was much weaker but without reverting to its original pureness unfortunately, it sounded quite nasal actually. You can also hear it clearly on his Motown record and compare it with his fantastic cover of You can't hurry love. Incidentally, I loved how Phil delivered Ripples on the Duke tour. It's quite an ethereal song so it ís difficult to retain its quality live and I find he did just that with his more mature and powerful vocal style.
« Last Edit: Mar 4th, 2017, 2:37pm by Fabrizio » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Phil's voice
« Reply #9 on: Mar 3rd, 2017, 11:14am »

on Mar 2nd, 2017, 3:22pm, Fabrizio wrote:
True, his voice was much weaker but without reverting to its original pureness unfortunately, it sounded quite nasal actually. You can also hear it clearly on his Motown record and compare it with his fantastic cover of You can't hurry love. Incidentally, I loved how Phil delivered Ripples on the Duke tour. It's quite an ethereal song so it ís difficult to retain its quality live and I find he did just that with his more mature and poewerful vocal style.


I agree that it was more nasal and not as good as his earlier softer voice. Beyond Ripples, I also thought he sounded better on Invisible Touch - I preferred a lighter approach instead the somewhat strained and aggressive earlier approach (the key change helped too).
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xx Re: Phil's voice
« Reply #10 on: Mar 12th, 2017, 01:49am »

I feel as far as classical sounding, Phil's voice was at it's best around the W&W period. But there's also the "rock" sound, which is stronger, with some raspiness in there cos basically he's shouting-just with specific vocal pitches. It's not unusual for pop stars. Doesn't necessarily mean he's using his vocal chords wrong per se, but it still wears down on your chords in the long term. Which explains his drastically diminished vocals nowadays.

IMO Phil's voice was at its strongest (in terms of performance of their own music) during the Invisible Touch period-mid 80's. His range was still there, and by that time his voice sounded more "ballsy" with more strength behind it, but he also achieved by that point a vocal precision and tonal control that he wasn't able to do just 5-7 years before that. For a good example, hear his vocals on Genesis' performance of Abacab on the Invisible Touch tour. The precision and rapid runs he uses throughout display a sense of control and strength in his vocals that wasn't as tight sounding before. He's high and low and all over the place in that one, and if you watch, he does it almost effortlessly. Domino Pt. 2 from the actual IT album is also a good example of his power and range at this point.
« Last Edit: Mar 12th, 2017, 01:54am by Billys_Number » User IP Logged

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