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lordbaltimore
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xx Vinyl vs Cd Experience
« Thread started on: Apr 21st, 2015, 8:52pm »

For all albums released before WCD (when vinyl was still the primary format), which do you think work better in the original vinyl format with two distinct sides, and which are better as a CD with the entire album start to finish?

I think ATTWT, Foxtrot, and Trick of the Tail are better as CDs (all the tracks at once). Mostly because these albums are of basically consistent quality throughout, and you might as well have all the songs at once. Plus with Foxtrot I wouldn't like just having Horizons and Supper's Ready to listen to on Side Two. Likewise I'd hate to stop Trick after Mad Man Moon (which is a great song but it would leave me wanting more if the album stopped there), or starting Trick at Robbery, Assault and Battery.

All the others I think are better with a break in the middle between the different album sides. Usually because one side is better than the other or different, and is better experienced on its own. For example, I often listen to side one or side two of Selling England alone. But listening to the entire album start to finish can be a bit more challenging (although still very satisfying). I especially like side 2 of that album. Also I kind of wish I had a vinyl of Abacab or Shapes so I could isolate Side One and didn't have to worry about it leading into the mostly lesser songs on the side two.

Invisible Touch in particular works much better as an album than a CD. Depending on who else is in the room, you could get a better reception with Side One (pop fans), or prog/industrial fans (Side Two). Side One is what you'd drink a six-pack with, while Side Two is better experienced sober.
« Last Edit: Apr 21st, 2015, 8:53pm by lordbaltimore » User IP Logged

Schrottrocker
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xx Re: Vinyl vs Cd Experience
« Reply #1 on: Apr 22nd, 2015, 04:29am »

Very interesting question. smiley

Listening to an album on vinyl usually reminds me how short one side is, we're not used to this any more when you can let an mp3 player run for a whole day. Then again, I get to know the songs on an album way better when the album is subdivided into two smaller halfs and you don't always have to listen to the whole album, you can just pick one of the two sides on its own too.

I used to have a lot of the old Genesis albums copied on cassette, they were in one go then - except for that last song that exceeds the ~47 minutes of one cassette side! wink Foxtrot was particularly annoying, side 1 of my cassette ended in the middle of the interlude between Willow Farm and Apocalypse, side 2 led you right into Apocalypse in 9/8. rolleyes

Anyway, to me Nursery Cryme works very well with separate vinyl sides. I used to prefer side 2 on its own because side 1 is such a heavy load. With Trick it was similar, I loved both sides but one side was enough at a time. Funny, today I don't have any problem with the whole album on CD. Selling England I knew on cassette from the start (side 1 of my cassette had Joe Walsh's 'But Seriously, Folks' plus Moonlit Knight, side 2 started with I Know What I Like...), I never found it too heavy, the whole album has such a nice flow and not one hard-to-digest song. And Then There Were Three is definitely the album that falls into sides for me, side 2 is so much better than side 1.

From Duke onwards I never knew any of them on vinyl so it is hard to imagine them in two sides. Recently I took a couple of CDs in my collection and isolated the original vinyl sides on purpose to get a better understanding of their original structure. I am currently working that way through my Steve Hackett CDs. It really helps, a portion of 5 songs is way better to oversee than 10 songs at once.
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NoSonOfVine
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xx Re: Vinyl vs Cd Experience
« Reply #2 on: Apr 22nd, 2015, 05:24am »

Sadly, I've never heard any records on vinyl, ever. embarassed We have a vinyl player on our house, but it's broken and we haven't bothered to repair it. I'd love to hear the vinyl Genesis albums - we have all of them in the attic.
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xx Re: Vinyl vs Cd Experience
« Reply #3 on: Apr 22nd, 2015, 09:09am »

Just a thought:

'most every CD player has a programming function, even cheap portables, so if you want to recreate the vinyl experience in terms of "sides", programme the tracks of "side 1" and hit play. for "side 2", simply select the track at the start and hit play!

I say this, as most people never do it, and so it has become a "forgotten function". You probably don't even know how to without referring to the manual, but most players fall into 1 of 2 categories:

Hit the programme button to go into programming, select the first track you want to hear, hit "programme" again, select the second, and so on.

The other method is usually just hit the track number, then hit "programme" and then do the next track, and so on.

Interestingly, many players have the button marked as "prog"! Do you think the designers know something we do? wink
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snowdog
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xx Re: Vinyl vs Cd Experience
« Reply #4 on: Apr 22nd, 2015, 2:44pm »

To this day, I prefer vinyl, probably because it's what I grew up with. All of Genesis works best for me in that format, with one exception: WCD. On WCD, the songs are spread out over four sides, with only three per side. It feels like you're constantly having to get up to flip a record. CAS was handled better, using only three sides of vinyl for music, there is an etching of Tony, Mike and Ray on side four. I'm hoping this is reproduced for the new box set.

If you want to experience what any old album was like on vinyl, get a sample of the sound of a needle being dropped at the beginning of a record and place it between tracks where each side was to begin. I did this when I collected the tracks that would have made up the double-vinyl version of ELO's Secret Messages. It really does give you a good feel for what it might have been like.
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xx Re: Vinyl vs Cd Experience
« Reply #5 on: Apr 24th, 2015, 05:31am »

Maybe you really had to have grown up with LPs to appreciate the idea of two sides! The artist had to think about the running order of the tracks to work around the imposed break. When done well this resulted in an album like a two act play with an intermission in the middle – and I think Genesis did this very well up to and including Duke.
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John Wilkinson
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xx Re: Vinyl vs Cd Experience
« Reply #6 on: Apr 24th, 2015, 06:16am »

what about the supposed difference in sound quality of Vinyl?

I must admit I have never heard it..... huh

I prefer CD's however after getting Spotify Premium last year I rarely play CD's now.

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xx Re: Vinyl vs Cd Experience
« Reply #7 on: Apr 25th, 2015, 02:21am »

on Apr 22nd, 2015, 2:44pm, snowdog wrote:
CAS was handled better, using only three sides of vinyl for music, there is an etching of Tony, Mike and Ray on side four. I'm hoping this is reproduced for the new box set.


That has been confirmed that it is going to happen.

When I was growing up a lot of the music that I bought was vinyl which I picked up at boot fairs or second hand record shops. Genesis and Queen were two the bands of my teenage years so I still to this day think of the albums in terms of Vinyl sides. The only two genesis studio albums that don't fall into this category was WCD and CAS as I got given a free a copy of WCD on CD via a promotion through Carling Beer around the 25th anniversary of Virgin Records, so I see it as one group of songs. CAS is a little different as played that album to death on cassette when it came out so to me "side two" starts with "The Dividing Line".

so yes I would say the format that you first listen to albums has an effect on the way that music is presented in album sides.
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xx Re: Vinyl vs Cd Experience
« Reply #8 on: Apr 25th, 2015, 03:11am »

on Apr 24th, 2015, 06:16am, John Wilkinson wrote:
what about the supposed difference in sound quality of Vinyl?

I must admit I have never heard it..... huh


Me neither......
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666
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xx Re: Vinyl vs Cd Experience
« Reply #9 on: Apr 25th, 2015, 04:32am »

Ah! Nothing better than to listen to an analogue representation of digitized music. huh

Sometimes...just sometimes...something sounds better the more money/time/delusion you invest in it - and most of that time it's nothing to do with the actual end result.

Some vinyl sounds fantastic. However, I remember the first time I heard a digital recording and was blown away by the clarity. This was some 20 years ago, before compressed digitized sound was commonplace. I remember just how 'duff' vinyl and cassette tape were in comparison and it's hard to get away from that.

What I do miss about vinyl is the artwork, although you'll probably find just as much work (if not more) goes into the CD inserts. But they were things of beauty.
« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2015, 04:49am by 666 » User IP Logged

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HENRY
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xx Re: Vinyl vs Cd Experience
« Reply #10 on: Apr 26th, 2015, 4:25pm »

on Apr 24th, 2015, 06:16am, John Wilkinson wrote:
what about the supposed difference in sound quality of Vinyl?

I must admit I have never heard it..... huh

I prefer CD's however after getting Spotify Premium last year I rarely play CD's now.

Well, if you are OK with listening to Spotify, I suspect that you generally don't put much consideration into sound quality anyway.

When CDs first came around most people had fairly basic and cheap turntables, and they more than likely didn't take too much care with their LPs. CDs offered something different...portable, durable, and something that overcame the usual flaws found in most TTs. I remember how involving it was to listen to CDs initially, but over time I learned a lot about what was required for decent LP playback, and the difference between the sound of a CD and that of an LP on a good turntable.

One CD that was a favorite of mine at the time was Stevie Wonder's In Square Circle. It has a great collection of songs, but being an early all digital recording was a big selling point. The sound was clear, and crisp, and the rhythms were tight. The sound was quite involving. But the attraction was really the difference compared to what I was used to with most LPs. After hearing lots of CDs and LPs since then I discovered what was missing with a lot of CD playback. Without generalizing too much, that Stevie Wonder album became a prime example of what was bad about digital. When I listen to it these days it sounds bright, flat, and artificial. It's got to be one of the worst digital recordings out there. Of course, not all digital recording are that bad. Many are quite good. And CD players have become much better since then.

Anyway, point is, there is still a difference between LPs and CDs if you genuinely look for it. But you really need to hear for yourself with a proper demo. In recent years the public has been getting away from better sound quality by choosing MP3s and lossy music files. You can't really make a true comparison unless you actually give each format a fair opportunity.



« Last Edit: Nov 14th, 2017, 9:11pm by HENRY » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Vinyl vs Cd Experience
« Reply #11 on: Apr 26th, 2015, 4:34pm »

Regarding the OP...

Unless one has been a part of that period when all albums were presented as "sides", then I don't think one can fully appreciate how that helped to define the character of the album as a whole. From that perspective, all of the Genesis albums (up to IT at least) worked in terms of "sides" because that's how they were created.
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xx Re: Vinyl vs Cd Experience
« Reply #12 on: Nov 12th, 2017, 09:38am »

Up until this year the only Genesis I owned were the sixth Gabriel albums on CD (all 1994 remasters, bar “FGTR”). I usually devote October of any year to progressive rock. I call it ‘Progtober’ (do you see what I did there?!) During Progtober 2016 I finally clicked with “A Trick of the Tail” after a few failed attempts over the years. I don’t know why it hadn’t sunk in previously. I found a second hand vinyl copy of “ATOTT” and bought it last year. Quickly followed by a used copy of “Duke”. At the start of this year I treated myself to a new hi-fi set-up (Rega turntable and Marantz pre-amp). And then since mid-September this year I’ve been mainlining the four and three man eras thanks to Apple Music. I’ve also been buying up Genesis vinyl wherever I can find it. Local record shops have proven invaluable as I’ve acquired pretty tidy copies of “Trespass”, “Nursery Cryme”, “Wind & Wuthering”, “Seconds Out”, “And Then There Were Three”, “Genesis”, and “Invisible Touch”. I’ve also purchased the ‘Spot The Pigeon’ and ‘3 x 3’ EPs for cheap on Discogs. There’s nothing quite like the gatefold sleeves for artwork.

One thing I do like about digital listening is that it can facilitate things such as putting a playlist together of the original six-part “Duke” suite, etc.
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xx Re: Vinyl vs Cd Experience
« Reply #13 on: Nov 13th, 2017, 07:05am »

on Apr 25th, 2015, 04:32am, 666 wrote:
What I do miss about vinyl is the artwork

That's the main (and just about the only) thing I miss about the old vinyl days. Especially with some of Ant Phillips' albums.
« Last Edit: Nov 13th, 2017, 07:05am by onetwothree » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Vinyl vs Cd Experience
« Reply #14 on: Nov 13th, 2017, 3:45pm »

Vinyl is the only way that you know side A of Genesis / Shapes is far superior to Side B.
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