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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play  (Read 5288 times)
foxfeeder
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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #30 on: Mar 20th, 2014, 1:30pm »

on Mar 20th, 2014, 10:53am, HENRY wrote:
Well, it's not a moral issue either.

I am referring to the belief or perception that Steve has some kind of priority say as to how another musician can or cannot play a particular piece of music with which he is associated. He has no such priority, in any sense, and he has never expressed anything to that effect.

The only criticism seems to come from Genesis fans who simply do not care for Daryl's approach to solos that are identified with Steve. But they have no say in the matter.
Musicians are free to interpret pieces of music created or identified with others. It happens all the time. Generally, it is quite accepted; in many respects encouraged. But in Genesis world it appears to be some sort of cardinal sin.


Again, to clarify, I am not saying Steve has any moral right to impose a way of playing on any track he set the original recording to, but he does have more moral right to push the boundaries of them than others do and have it accepted.

We all know that musicians can and do reinterpret songs or instrumentals, a good case in point being Mad World, good though the Tears For fears version is, for many, Gary Jules is the definitive version. He brought something new and unique, and for many, better, to the song.

I suppose people who have never heard Firth of Fifth, and having both Steve's and Daryl's (The clip I posted) solo's played to them, might in some cases choose to prefer Daryl's. I suspect few of us who know the song will do the same. Morally, I think the long term fans have more right to be right!
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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #31 on: Mar 21st, 2014, 3:19pm »

What many people fail to realise that Genesis is Daryl's solo career...

Oh no, that's someone else isn't it! wink
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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #32 on: Mar 22nd, 2014, 02:40am »

on Mar 20th, 2014, 11:16am, John Wilkinson wrote:
Sadly Henry it is not confined to Genesis embarassed

One only has to look at Deep Purple fans when it comes to anyone but Richie Blackmore playing guitar for them. Two great talents (Tommy Bolin and Steve Morse) regulary get slaughtered on the DP fourm for daring to put their slant on RB's solos.

.......and let us not mention some Yes fans attiude towards anyone but Jon Anderson singing for them... lipsrsealed

I have no doubt that this sort of thing crops up with other bands or
artists. In any case, these kind of responses seem somewhat misguided, IMO.

I don't think that the Yes/Anderson thing is at all comparable. It is more an issue of Anderson's absence than the performance itself.
« Last Edit: Mar 22nd, 2014, 03:21am by HENRY » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #33 on: Mar 22nd, 2014, 03:17am »

on Mar 20th, 2014, 1:30pm, foxfeeder wrote:
Again, to clarify, I am not saying Steve has any moral right to impose a way of playing on any track he set the original recording to, but he does have more moral right to push the boundaries of them than others do and have it accepted.

No, there are no rights involved, in any sense.

Steve can play the songs in whatever manner he chooses. But there does not exist any precedent that declares that his approach is exclusive. Anyone else can come along and offer their own take of the same music. There is no hierarchy associated with this. For years, musicians and singers and have taken the work of others and transformed them into memorable piece of work. Were these people under the same restrictions?

Quote:
We all know that musicians can and do reinterpret songs or instrumentals, a good case in point being Mad World, good though the Tears For fears version is, for many, Gary Jules is the definitive version. He brought something new and unique, and for many, better, to the song.

I suppose people who have never heard Firth of Fifth, and having both Steve's and Daryl's (The clip I posted) solo's played to them, might in some cases choose to prefer Daryl's. I suspect few of us who know the song will do the same. Morally, I think the long term fans have more right to be right!

In other words, you get to choose what is acceptable.

Wrong.

This is not about what is better, in your view. It's about the freedom of a musician to interpret and perform a piece of music. Again, you have complete freedom to express your impressions or opinions of the work, but you are in no position to declare that your opinion is above others.


« Last Edit: Mar 22nd, 2014, 03:30am by HENRY » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #34 on: Mar 22nd, 2014, 2:15pm »

on Mar 22nd, 2014, 03:17am, HENRY wrote:
No, there are no rights involved, in any sense.

Steve can play the songs in whatever manner he chooses. But there does not exist any precedent that declares that his approach is exclusive. Anyone else can come along and offer their own take of the same music. There is no hierarchy associated with this. For years, musicians and singers and have taken the work of others and transformed them into memorable piece of work. Were these people under the same restrictions?


In other words, you get to choose what is acceptable.

Wrong.

This is not about what is better, in your view. It's about the freedom of a musician to interpret and perform a piece of music. Again, you have complete freedom to express your impressions or opinions of the work, but you are in no position to declare that your opinion is above others.




But you do. In your head. Or your world. Apparently!

I've never come across anyone else who can take what I've said and try to use it against me. I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce!
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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #35 on: Mar 22nd, 2014, 11:30pm »

on Mar 22nd, 2014, 2:15pm, foxfeeder wrote:
But you do. In your head. Or your world. Apparently!

I've never come across anyone else who can take what I've said and try to use it against me. I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce!

You make the claim of "more right to be right".

I am only trying to point out that there is no right or wrong regarding what Daryl plays. I've explained why. It is a purely subjective opinion whether or not one likes the results. I disagree with the premise that there is some kind of "moral" order to such choices which attempts to confirm one side of the discussion.

Your indignation is misdirected.
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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #36 on: Mar 23rd, 2014, 05:43am »

on Mar 22nd, 2014, 11:30pm, HENRY wrote:
You make the claim of "more right to be right".

I am only trying to point out that there is no right or wrong regarding what Daryl plays. I've explained why. It is a purely subjective opinion whether or not one likes the results. I disagree with the premise that there is some kind of "moral" order to such choices which attempts to confirm one side of the discussion.

Your indignation is misdirected.


Subjective opinion.
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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #37 on: May 11th, 2014, 2:28pm »

on Jan 26th, 2014, 11:53am, Schrottrocker wrote:
+1

By all means of respect: Daryl is a nice guy but his solo in Moonlit Knight was a mess. wink Playing Steve's parts is not just a matter of technical challenge, it's as much a matter of expression and that's the point Daryl had a little problems with imho.


The point with music is that it is a dynamical thing, not static. I know that a lot of fans want to hear things as they are on the record, but I don't think that's the point of music (and live music) anyways. Nothing wrong with changes over time, new interpretations, new arrangements, etc. And nobody that listens to live music should have the idea that they are going to get the studio version note for note—unless it's some kind of claim made by the artist, it is not what I expect from Genesis, it IS what I expect from the Musical Box).

It's a matter of taste I think. Obviously he still did a good job as far as his employer was concerned. He started in 1979 and was still there in 2007.

on Feb 17th, 2014, 10:31am, garyt wrote:
I am really pleased to find out that Daryl finds Genesis music not that difficult to play, perhaps he could give Nick Beggs the benefit of his wisdom because from looking at his Facebook page he has been trying to learn the set for the Hackett tour for two months now and is not finding it easy at all. Though i have no doubt who will do the better job when the time comes.

Nick's main instruments are the bass guitar and chapmanstick. Not the guitar, and certainly not a 12 string doubleneck. Nick doesn't have the same skills on the guitar as Daryl as he doesn't have to be a guitarist but a bassplayer (I'm sure Nick can do some things on bass that Daryl cannot…)
It's a bit of comparing apples with oranges here.

But I agree with Hackett. Genesis is more an emotional and feel exercise, not a technical one. Sure you have to master your instrument well (it's not for novice!), and yes it's difficult to write this material, and yes they wrote some complicated stuff, but no I can think of a lot of music that is much more difficult to play (including stuff that Daryl actually did in his career before Genesis). At least for the guitar, but also for other instruments.
Genesis where very gifted players, but they where never very technical and flashy. Arrangement and composing was their main goal, not showing off on stage.
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