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jpsyr100
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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #15 on: Mar 16th, 2014, 10:20pm »

Don't quite understand the dislike for Daryl....its not like Steve hasn't changed the solo through the years. In fact on some recordings like Live in Tokyo, you can hardly figure out what song they're playing and it's not like his Genesis revisited stuff sounds authentic. Phil Mike and Tony must have thought Daryl did just fine or they would have moved on to someone else

That said, the symphony in the background at the beginning is a mess
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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #16 on: Mar 17th, 2014, 3:20pm »

on Mar 16th, 2014, 10:20pm, jpsyr100 wrote:
Don't quite understand the dislike for Daryl....its not like Steve hasn't changed the solo through the years. In fact on some recordings like Live in Tokyo, you can hardly figure out what song they're playing and it's not like his Genesis revisited stuff sounds authentic. Phil Mike and Tony must have thought Daryl did just fine or they would have moved on to someone else

That said, the symphony in the background at the beginning is a mess


Of course it's all a matter of taste - speaking for me, I recognize Daryl's technical abilities but I don't think he has much too offer in terms of expression and individual style. Steve has all of that. I have to add though I don't always like Steve's re-interpretations of himself: his Firth of Fifth solo on Seconds Out for example, I was never very fond of. But hey, who am I to judge over these guys.
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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #17 on: Mar 17th, 2014, 5:09pm »

on Mar 17th, 2014, 3:20pm, Schrottrocker wrote:
his Firth of Fifth solo on Seconds Out for example, I was never very fond of..


shocked Blimey Schrott! That solo was what did it for me! That's when I really put Genesis on the pedestel they're still at the top of in my eyes! I nearly wore my vinyl Seconds Out out listening to that solo! Isn't it funny how we all love Genesis but love them for totally different reasons. smiley

on Mar 16th, 2014, 10:20pm, jpsyr100 wrote:
Don't quite understand the dislike for Daryl....its not like Steve hasn't changed the solo through the years.


I think as far as Daryl Stuermer goes, the music isn't his to change, whereas if Steve Hackett wrote it, he can play it how he thinks fit!
« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2014, 5:11pm by Gabble Ratchet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #18 on: Mar 17th, 2014, 5:14pm »

on Mar 17th, 2014, 5:09pm, Gabble Ratchet wrote:
shocked Blimey Schrott! That solo was what did it for me! That's when I really put Genesis on the pedestel they're still at the top of in my eyes! I nearly wore my vinyl Seconds Out out listening to that solo! Isn't it funny how we all love Genesis but love them for totally different reasons. smiley

Yeah, I've always loved the Seconds Out version of Firth Of Fifth. And I never understood people saying that Steve was mixed too low. Some people just don't understand Tony's sense of humour. undecided
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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #19 on: Mar 17th, 2014, 5:35pm »

on Mar 17th, 2014, 5:09pm, Gabble Ratchet wrote:
shocked Blimey Schrott! That solo was what did it for me! That's when I really put Genesis on the pedestel they're still at the top of in my eyes! I nearly wore my vinyl Seconds Out out listening to that solo! Isn't it funny how we all love Genesis but love them for totally different reasons. smiley

You see, for me the solo in the studio version was what did it for me. smiley I guess I have quite strong opinions about anybody changing that solo, and if it's Steve himself! cheesy From all the live versions I know I like those from the Selling England tour best, he was closest to the studio version there (and Peter plays flute live...sigh)
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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #20 on: Mar 18th, 2014, 04:53am »

on Mar 17th, 2014, 5:35pm, Schrottrocker wrote:
(and Peter plays flute live...sigh)

I do miss Pete's flute after 1975. grin
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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #21 on: Mar 18th, 2014, 11:57am »

on Mar 16th, 2014, 10:20pm, jpsyr100 wrote:
Don't quite understand the dislike for Daryl....its not like Steve hasn't changed the solo through the years. In fact on some recordings like Live in Tokyo, you can hardly figure out what song they're playing and it's not like his Genesis revisited stuff sounds authentic. Phil Mike and Tony must have thought Daryl did just fine or they would have moved on to someone else

That said, the symphony in the background at the beginning is a mess


Well, I've just given the Tokyo Tapes version a listen, in case my memory was playing tricks. The solo sounds like a carbon copy of the original album version to me. Do you mean the bit leading into it which on the original was Peter on Flute? Cos yes, that's different, as I guess it would be. They could have got Ian McDonald to do it I guess, but as they were touring GR1, and that has a different section there too, I suppose they decided to go with something along those lines.

Personally, I preferred GR1 to GR 2 BECAUSE he changed stuff. And as he was there when it was created, I figure he has the right to tinker.

As for Daryl, I don't think he ever played it "right" but if you're gonna change it deliberately as he does in the clip, at least be sure you have the wherewithal!
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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #22 on: Mar 18th, 2014, 11:59am »

on Mar 17th, 2014, 5:09pm, Gabble Ratchet wrote:
I think as far as Daryl Stuermer goes, the music isn't his to change, whereas if Steve Hackett wrote it, he can play it how he thinks fit!


Technically, of course, he didn't write it, but as he set the mould for it, I think he has more right to mess with it than most. But to me, the Tokyo Tapes version is effectively the original. What do you think?
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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #23 on: Mar 18th, 2014, 1:26pm »

on Mar 18th, 2014, 11:59am, foxfeeder wrote:
Technically, of course, he didn't write it, but as he set the mould for it, I think he has more right to mess with it than most. But to me, the Tokyo Tapes version is effectively the original. What do you think?


I haven't heard the Toyko tapes, Foxy! sad
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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #24 on: Mar 19th, 2014, 7:10pm »

on Mar 17th, 2014, 5:09pm, Gabble Ratchet wrote:
I think as far as Daryl Stuermer goes, the music isn't his to change, whereas if Steve Hackett wrote it, he can play it how he thinks fit!

on Mar 18th, 2014, 11:59am, foxfeeder wrote:
Technically, of course, he didn't write it, but as he set the mould for it, I think he has more right to mess with it than most. But to me, the Tokyo Tapes version is effectively the original. What do you think?

No such right exists. All music is open to interpretation. Whether or not you care for the interpretation is another matter altogether.

If you insist upon looking at this as a matter of right, consider that the originator of that piece of music, and those credited with its writing and original recording, have never directed a word of criticism towards Daryl's interpretation. In fact, the band has given him explicit freedom to play what he plays.

To paraphrase Wynton Marsalis regarding interpreting classic pieces of music: "It's not a holy parchment, it's just something you play."
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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #25 on: Mar 20th, 2014, 04:09am »

on Mar 18th, 2014, 11:57am, foxfeeder wrote:
Personally, I preferred GR1 to GR 2 BECAUSE he changed stuff. And as he was there when it was created, I figure he has the right to tinker.
!


At last someone who prefers GR1 to GR2.....Steve takes twist and turns on that album that few musicians even could conceive let alone pull off....

Praise the Lord.... rolleyes

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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #26 on: Mar 20th, 2014, 08:42am »

on Mar 19th, 2014, 7:10pm, HENRY wrote:
No such right exists. All music is open to interpretation. Whether or not you care for the interpretation is another matter altogether.

If you insist upon looking at this as a matter of right, consider that the originator of that piece of music, and those credited with its writing and original recording, have never directed a word of criticism towards Daryl's interpretation. In fact, the band has given him explicit freedom to play what he plays.

To paraphrase Wynton Marsalis regarding interpreting classic pieces of music: "It's not a holy parchment, it's just something you play."


I was using the word "right" in the moral, not the legal sense. Posts I've made in the past regarding this, and in ref. to Steve's GR tour, in threads you have been party to, surely made it clear that I already know and agree with your point.

Just in case there was any doubt.......................... wink
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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #27 on: Mar 20th, 2014, 08:44am »

on Mar 20th, 2014, 04:09am, John Wilkinson wrote:
At last someone who prefers GR1 to GR2.....Steve takes twist and turns on that album that few musicians even could conceive let alone pull off....

Praise the Lord.... rolleyes

Best wishes

John


I've said this 2 or 3 times before on the forum. For me, some of the tracks on 1 are now the definitives!
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Ian

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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #28 on: Mar 20th, 2014, 10:53am »

on Mar 20th, 2014, 08:42am, foxfeeder wrote:
I was using the word "right" in the moral, not the legal sense. Posts I've made in the past regarding this, and in ref. to Steve's GR tour, in threads you have been party to, surely made it clear that I already know and agree with your point.

Just in case there was any doubt.......................... wink


Well, it's not a moral issue either.

I am referring to the belief or perception that Steve has some kind of priority say as to how another musician can or cannot play a particular piece of music with which he is associated. He has no such priority, in any sense, and he has never expressed anything to that effect.

The only criticism seems to come from Genesis fans who simply do not care for Daryl's approach to solos that are identified with Steve. But they have no say in the matter.
Musicians are free to interpret pieces of music created or identified with others. It happens all the time. Generally, it is quite accepted; in many respects encouraged. But in Genesis world it appears to be some sort of cardinal sin.
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xx Re: Nothing I play in Genesis is hard to play
« Reply #29 on: Mar 20th, 2014, 11:16am »

Sadly Henry it is not confined to Genesis embarassed

One only has to look at Deep Purple fans when it comes to anyone but Richie Blackmore playing guitar for them. Two great talents (Tommy Bolin and Steve Morse) regulary get slaughtered on the DP fourm for daring to put their slant on RB's solos.

.......and let us not mention some Yes fans attiude towards anyone but Jon Anderson singing for them... lipsrsealed

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