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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Critics ignore prog (rant)  (Read 1554 times)
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #15 on: Oct 24th, 2016, 8:16pm »

on Aug 30th, 2016, 11:19am, slowdancer wrote:
There is no logic in this. We all have to accept, that progressive rock has become sort of a niche genre, with a relative small amount of followers in comparison to main stream music. While bands like Yes and Genesis and others were big acts in the seventies and eighties, prog became more and more unimportant in later years. Bands like Marillion brought prog back to the perception of many in the mid - eighties, but only for a relatively short time. A lot of people, I know, who know Marillion are astounded, if I tell them, that they carried on in the nineties with Steve Hogarth and still exist.



Part of the problem with prog is that a lot of people aren't sure what is prog and what isn't. Marillion were a good example. To most people outside of prog, Marillion were a prog band and therefore deeply uncool and to be avoided at all costs. To a lot of the first wave of prog fans, Marillion were a derivative and totally shit band who weren't fit to be called prog. grin
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #16 on: Oct 25th, 2016, 09:44am »

on Oct 24th, 2016, 8:16pm, Synth Solo wrote:
Part of the problem with prog is that a lot of people aren't sure what is prog and what isn't. Marillion were a good example. To most people outside of prog, Marillion were a prog band and therefore deeply uncool and to be avoided at all costs. To a lot of the first wave of prog fans, Marillion were a derivative and totally shit band who weren't fit to be called prog. grin


I am in the group of fans who feel Marillion haven't been prog since Fish's departure.
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #17 on: Oct 25th, 2016, 10:25am »

on Oct 24th, 2016, 8:16pm, Synth Solo wrote:
Part of the problem with prog is that a lot of people aren't sure what is prog and what isn't. Marillion were a good example. To most people outside of prog, Marillion were a prog band and therefore deeply uncool and to be avoided at all costs. To a lot of the first wave of prog fans, Marillion were a derivative and totally shit band who weren't fit to be called prog. grin


Marillion after Fish's departure has lost the tempo of traditional prog, but I do like Hogarth's voice and some of later Marillion's music.. I still prefer their earlier music and to say they are not progressive, I do not agree.

The definition of Progressive music is various time signatures like classical music. This is why you see a lot of bands in Progressive Archives web site!.... How that is reflected in the music is up to the listener.
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #18 on: Oct 25th, 2016, 8:41pm »

A lot of people aren't even aware of music outside of the mainstream. This was me at one point in time. I think casual listeners would be more open to progressive rock and similar music if it were represented in mainstream music and radio. There have been instances where progressive rocks songs and other longer, complex, or unorthodox songs became hits. Some examples include:

"A Day In The Life" - The Beatles
"Foreplay/Long Time" - Boston
"Lucky Man" - ELP
"From The Beginning" - ELP
"I Know What I Like" - Genesis
"Mama" - Genesis
"Locomotive Breath" - Jethro Tull
"Carry On My Wayward Son" - Kansas
"Stairway To Heaven" - Led Zeppelin
"Kashmir" - Led Zeppelin
"Free Bird" - Lynyrd Skynyrd
"Tuesday Afternoon" - The Moody Blues
"Nights In White Satin" - The Moody Blues
"Time" - Pink Floyd
"Wish You Were Here" - Pink Floyd
"Bohemian Rhapsody" - Queen
"Tom Sawyer" - Rush
"Lime Light" - Rush
"Come Sail Away" - Styx
"I've Seen All Good People" - Yes
"Roundabout" - Yes
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #19 on: Oct 26th, 2016, 08:38am »

on Oct 25th, 2016, 8:41pm, rael1974 wrote:
A lot of people aren't even aware of music outside of the mainstream. This was me at one point in time. I think casual listeners would be more open to progressive rock and similar music if it were represented in mainstream music and radio. There have been instances where progressive rocks songs and other longer, complex, or unorthodox songs became hits. Some examples include:

"A Day In The Life" - The Beatles
"Foreplay/Long Time" - Boston
"Lucky Man" - ELP
"From The Beginning" - ELP
"I Know What I Like" - Genesis
"Mama" - Genesis
"Locomotive Breath" - Jethro Tull
"Carry On My Wayward Son" - Kansas
"Stairway To Heaven" - Led Zeppelin
"Kashmir" - Led Zeppelin
"Free Bird" - Lynyrd Skynyrd
"Tuesday Afternoon" - The Moody Blues
"Nights In White Satin" - The Moody Blues
"Time" - Pink Floyd
"Wish You Were Here" - Pink Floyd
"Bohemian Rhapsody" - Queen
"Tom Sawyer" - Rush
"Lime Light" - Rush
"Come Sail Away" - Styx
"I've Seen All Good People" - Yes
"Roundabout" - Yes


Add to that list, among others:

Music - John Miles
I'm Mandy, Fly me - 10cc
Band on the run - Wings
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #20 on: Oct 26th, 2016, 10:11am »

on Oct 25th, 2016, 8:41pm, rael1974 wrote:
A lot of people aren't even aware of music outside of the mainstream. This was me at one point in time. I think casual listeners would be more open to progressive rock and similar music if it were represented in mainstream music and radio. There have been instances where progressive rocks songs and other longer, complex, or unorthodox songs became hits. Some examples include:

"A Day In The Life" - The Beatles
"Foreplay/Long Time" - Boston
"Lucky Man" - ELP
"From The Beginning" - ELP
"I Know What I Like" - Genesis
"Mama" - Genesis
"Locomotive Breath" - Jethro Tull
"Carry On My Wayward Son" - Kansas
"Stairway To Heaven" - Led Zeppelin
"Kashmir" - Led Zeppelin
"Free Bird" - Lynyrd Skynyrd
"Tuesday Afternoon" - The Moody Blues
"Nights In White Satin" - The Moody Blues
"Time" - Pink Floyd
"Wish You Were Here" - Pink Floyd
"Bohemian Rhapsody" - Queen
"Tom Sawyer" - Rush
"Lime Light" - Rush
"Come Sail Away" - Styx
"I've Seen All Good People" - Yes
"Roundabout" - Yes


The problem lies wherein the radio version is almost always abbreviated. I remember the days when they would play full length versions of songs like Nights In White Satin on the radio.
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #21 on: Oct 26th, 2016, 4:05pm »

on Oct 25th, 2016, 8:41pm, rael1974 wrote:
A lot of people aren't even aware of music outside of the mainstream. This was me at one point in time. I think casual listeners would be more open to progressive rock and similar music if it were represented in mainstream music and radio. There have been instances where progressive rocks songs and other longer, complex, or unorthodox songs became hits. Some examples include:

"A Day In The Life" - The Beatles
"Foreplay/Long Time" - Boston
"Lucky Man" - ELP
"From The Beginning" - ELP
"I Know What I Like" - Genesis
"Mama" - Genesis
"Locomotive Breath" - Jethro Tull
"Carry On My Wayward Son" - Kansas
"Stairway To Heaven" - Led Zeppelin
"Kashmir" - Led Zeppelin
"Free Bird" - Lynyrd Skynyrd
"Tuesday Afternoon" - The Moody Blues
"Nights In White Satin" - The Moody Blues
"Time" - Pink Floyd
"Wish You Were Here" - Pink Floyd
"Bohemian Rhapsody" - Queen
"Tom Sawyer" - Rush
"Lime Light" - Rush
"Come Sail Away" - Styx
"I've Seen All Good People" - Yes
"Roundabout" - Yes


Well, a lot of those songs weren't quite "hits", but rather just well known, favorite songs from those bands. And it would be a stretch to consider them particularly "complex" or "unorthodox". For the most part, you just listed a bunch of catchy, popular tunes by bands typically associated with or identified as "prog".
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #22 on: Oct 26th, 2016, 4:39pm »

That is the first time I've ever seen Band On The Run associated with prog.
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #23 on: Oct 26th, 2016, 7:22pm »

on Oct 26th, 2016, 4:05pm, HENRY wrote:
Well, a lot of those songs weren't quite "hits", but rather just well known, favorite songs from those bands. And it would be a stretch to consider them particularly "complex" or "unorthodox". For the most part, you just listed a bunch of catchy, popular tunes by bands typically associated with or identified as "prog".


That's true. I should've been more specific. What I meant by "complex" and "unorthodox" was that these songs offered things that were different than a standard pop hit. Obviously none of these songs are on the same level as "Supper's Ready" or "Close To The Edge".
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #24 on: Oct 27th, 2016, 07:20am »

on Oct 26th, 2016, 4:39pm, FeelItComing wrote:
That is the first time I've ever seen Band On The Run associated with prog.

You heard it here first! grin
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #25 on: Oct 27th, 2016, 12:10pm »

on Oct 26th, 2016, 10:11am, CountingOutTime wrote:
I remember the days when they would play full length versions of songs like Nights In White Satin on the radio.

Bad example. The "full version" of "Nights In White Satin" is actually that song plus the spoken piece "Late Lament."

From the same album, radio stations also used to play the "full version" of "Tuesday Afternoon," which was actually that song plus the next one.

Blame it on the confusing titling/track division on the original album.

But I know what you mean.
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #26 on: Oct 27th, 2016, 12:23pm »

on Oct 27th, 2016, 12:10pm, onetwothree wrote:
Bad example. The "full version" of "Nights In White Satin" is actually that song plus the spoken piece "Late Lament."

From the same album, radio stations also used to play the "full version" of "Tuesday Afternoon," which was actually that song plus the next one.

Blame it on the confusing titling/track division on the original album.

But I know what you mean.


Yep. You're correct. On radio station KMET (now defunct) here in SoCal they used to play "Late Lament" after "Nights In White Satin." Thanks for pointing that out.

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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #27 on: Oct 27th, 2016, 4:52pm »

on Oct 27th, 2016, 07:20am, foxfeeder wrote:
You heard it here first! grin


But why? Is it because it's divided into several sections? I am passionate about it & have loved it since I heard it when it was first released, but I've never thought of it as 'prog'. The song, that is. Now I think about it both the album & Venus & Mars could perhaps be said to have vaguely prog elements.
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #28 on: Oct 28th, 2016, 07:14am »

on Oct 27th, 2016, 4:52pm, FeelItComing wrote:
But why? Is it because it's divided into several sections? I am passionate about it & have loved it since I heard it when it was first released, but I've never thought of it as 'prog'. The song, that is. Now I think about it both the album & Venus & Mars could perhaps be said to have vaguely prog elements.


Well, the sectional thing is one element that defines prog. And, after all, the Beatles were one of the pioneers of prog, by striving beyond the simple 3 minute pop song, so I'd say it's credentials are there. There are lots of proggy singles in the 70's, another that was missed is Question by the Moody blues.

Incidentally, in reply to the "full version of "Nights" points, Graeme Edge maintains the reason it was a hit again in 72 is because one DJ in the US used it as his "go to the loo" track, due to it's length. Also, the only time I've come across the standard, single edit version (without the orchestra coming in after line one of the final verse) on CD is on "Ballads"
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #29 on: Oct 28th, 2016, 12:43pm »

on Oct 26th, 2016, 4:39pm, FeelItComing wrote:
That is the first time I've ever seen Band On The Run associated with prog.


I've always thought it was quite proggy. In the same way as 10cc's I'm Mandy Fly Me, John Miles Music and of course, Queen's Bo Rhap.
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