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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Ok..... Camel rule !!!!!  (Read 99401 times)
"Rock On!" with Shane Carlson
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xx Re: Ok..... Camel rule !!!!!
« Reply #765 on: Oct 11th, 2009, 2:06pm »

on Oct 9th, 2009, 6:35pm, demolition man wrote:
Welcome to the forum Peter! Where have you been! grin

Rumour has it that Shane is oiling the Camel forum again cheesy


Welcome Peter...

We've come up against some problems in getting the Rajaz going again...but fear not Camelites...all is not lost...
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xx Re: Ok..... Camel rule !!!!!
« Reply #766 on: Oct 12th, 2009, 03:18am »

Hi Peter!

Good to see you found us. cool
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xx Re: Ok..... Camel rule !!!!!
« Reply #767 on: Oct 12th, 2009, 12:19pm »

on Oct 10th, 2009, 03:59am, alivecamel wrote:
A bit of fun to celebrate Andy's continued recovery.

One thing I've always liked about live camel shows is the variety of superb musicians which have passed through the ranks, always bringing something new and fresh to the music. The zipped file contains 16 different live takes of the keyboard solo from Rhayader. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to identify the keyboard player in each. Of course a keyboardist may appear more than once!

If anyone's up for it, answers in the following form:

a) peter bardens
b) fred blogs
...
p) uncle tom cobbley

competition ends after two weeks or 3 replies, whichever is soonest. Prize is the glory of winning smiley

download link:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ESLST4MS


1 PM reply so far and an excellent attempt. The bar is already high, but there's still room to get over it.
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xx Re: Ok..... Camel rule !!!!!
« Reply #768 on: Oct 15th, 2009, 1:47pm »

Whilst we all wait with eager anticipation for the Santa Cruz DVD, there are some excellent photos originally posted back in 2003 but still available to whet your appetite!
Follow this link....
http://www.kkn.net/~tree/gallery/Camel

Regards
Peter
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xx Re: Ok..... Camel rule !!!!!
« Reply #769 on: Oct 15th, 2009, 4:26pm »

Wonderful stuff, brings back many fond memories. Thank you.

Really looking forward to something new. smiley
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xx Re: Ok..... Camel rule !!!!!
« Reply #770 on: Oct 15th, 2009, 5:01pm »

Cannot wait for this DVD... grin

Any news on Andy?.
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xx Re: Ok..... Camel rule !!!!!
« Reply #771 on: Oct 16th, 2009, 12:37pm »

on Oct 15th, 2009, 1:47pm, Riverman wrote:
Whilst we all wait with eager anticipation for the Santa Cruz DVD, there are some excellent photos originally posted back in 2003 but still available to whet your appetite!
Follow this link....
http://www.kkn.net/~tree/gallery/Camel

Regards
Peter


Yes, I remember those. Thanks for the link. Brilliant! smiley
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xx Re: Ok..... Camel rule !!!!!
« Reply #772 on: Oct 17th, 2009, 06:15am »

DM wrote :"It's hard to say when the new Camel DVD will be out. I haven't receieved any kind of indication from the good folks at CP. Andy's got the sound mix to finish and I have no idea what the staus of that is. My work on it was completed back in December of '08. "


::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

I was interested to read Dave Minasians mail as above:


My guess is that one of the reasons for the delay of the DVD is down to Andysí perfectionist streakÖhe has long admitted that he wants to give fans the best possible product, so it would be no surprise that a certain amount of re-recording or overdubs have been done.
This in itself is no bad thing as weíll end up with a great sounding show. Like all bands in a live situation, there will be a number of ďerrorsĒ, mis-timings, missed cues, bum notes, speeding up, slowing down etc, and listening to several shows, Camel certainly have had their moments, but their recovery from these incidents are such that unless you are really looking for them , and are ultra critical, you will notice really notice them and they certainly wonít spoil your enjoyment of the song.

Andy once told me that mistakes are almost inevitable and that although people will go along with cock-ups in a live situation, on a CD or a DVD such mistakes can be cruelly exposed, and he admits to a certain amount of papering over the cracks on previous live releases.

Camel often have had only the budget to record and capture on camera a single performance night, so what they get is what they get...they donít have the luxury of picking from 20 or so professionally recorded gigs.

Added to this fact, Santa Cruz was the first live performance with a brand new keyboard player, whoíd only been with them for about 2 weeks! No pressure there then!

I have had the CD of the audience recording since 2003, but Iíve only listened to it once...thatís because I didnít want to get familiar with the performance, the solos etc, so that it would spoil my enjoyment of the DVD when it eventually got releasedÖthatís not bad for willpower is it?!

Part of me will want to compare the recordings following the DVDís release to see if my theory is correct, but I wonít get too hung up about it. Iíll just wait with bated breath to get my hands on this DVD, in all itís glorious sound and vision, and like all the other Camel DVDís, Iím sure it will get a vast amount of repeat plays!

Canít wait now!

Regards
Peter
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xx Re: Ok..... Camel rule !!!!!
« Reply #773 on: Oct 18th, 2009, 12:37pm »

Yes, that does sound like a lot of willpower Peter!!! cheesy
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xx Re: Ok..... Camel rule !!!!!
« Reply #774 on: Oct 18th, 2009, 4:36pm »

Interesting thoughts Peter.
My own view is that musicians get too hung up on trying to perfect live releases; unless there's a complete train wreck the odd slip is all part of the live experience and can even add to its charm. At the other extreme, things can become too clinical, and in fact that can happen even during the event. For example seeing a few shows on the last Genesis outing, each time I was left with the impression that the material was played with great precision, but without the fire and energy of former years. Clinical. Camel are a GREAT live band, if Andy would just put more raw live stuff out there I'm sure it would do nothing but credit to their reputation.
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xx Re: Ok..... Camel rule !!!!!
« Reply #775 on: Oct 18th, 2009, 6:16pm »

on Oct 17th, 2009, 06:15am, Riverman wrote:

My guess is that one of the reasons for the delay of the DVD is down to Andysí perfectionist streakÖhe has long admitted that he wants to give fans the best possible product, so it would be no surprise that a certain amount of re-recording or overdubs have been done.
This in itself is no bad thing as weíll end up with a great sounding show. Like all bands in a live situation, there will be a number of ďerrorsĒ, mis-timings, missed cues, bum notes, speeding up, slowing down etc, and listening to several shows, Camel certainly have had their moments, but their recovery from these incidents are such that unless you are really looking for them , and are ultra critical, you will notice really notice them and they certainly wonít spoil your enjoyment of the song.

Andy once told me that mistakes are almost inevitable and that although people will go along with cock-ups in a live situation, on a CD or a DVD such mistakes can be cruelly exposed, and he admits to a certain amount of papering over the cracks on previous live releases.

Camel often have had only the budget to record and capture on camera a single performance night, so what they get is what they get...they donít have the luxury of picking from 20 or so professionally recorded gigs.

Added to this fact, Santa Cruz was the first live performance with a brand new keyboard player, whoíd only been with them for about 2 weeks! No pressure there then!

I have had the CD of the audience recording since 2003, but Iíve only listened to it once...thatís because I didnít want to get familiar with the performance, the solos etc, so that it would spoil my enjoyment of the DVD when it eventually got releasedÖthatís not bad for willpower is it?!

Part of me will want to compare the recordings following the DVDís release to see if my theory is correct, but I wonít get too hung up about it. Iíll just wait with bated breath to get my hands on this DVD, in all itís glorious sound and vision, and like all the other Camel DVDís, Iím sure it will get a vast amount of repeat plays!

Canít wait now!

Regards
Peter


Good to hear from you Peter.
There's a number of contributing factors for the delay of the Farewell DVD (has it really been 6 years? Yikes!!). If you recall, Andy was involved in a lot of projects following the 2003 tour including the Brew project, the acoustic Camel album, writing a new Camel album, rehearsing with Roger Waters, and I believe working with Ton Scherpenzeel of Kayak on something else. Not sure how high a priority mixing the Farewell DVD audio was among all these items. Add to this a techincal problem with the audio (which was eventually remedied, as evidenced by the inclusion of Foxhill on the Footage II DVD without the audio being negatively affected) and you can see why things were initially delayed.

Then his health problems began to set in. Selling their house and moving back to the UK was a major undertaking. And of course his surgery and long recovery put everything on hold. I'm sure his outlook on life has also dramatically changed as a result and his priorities have subsequently been altered.

There was talk at one point of releasing the DVD with unimixed audio (that which had been picked up by my camera mics, which was actually quite good although never intended to be used). But Andy nixed that idea after seeing the final edited version of the concert. To say he was quite happy with the performance and how good the visual turned out would be an understatement and he wanted the sound to match.

So that's where we're at. Although he is a perfectionist, I don't think he's obsessing with repairing every little nuance in the audio, if at all. It's just a matter of scheduling the time. Personally, I didn't notice very many mistakes. And considering it was the first show of the tour and there was a new keyboard player AND they played nearly 3 hours, that's saying something. Colin hit a bum note on Hymn to Her which was hardly noticeable then joked about it ("I've been playing this song since 1979 and still can't get it right").

I hope he leaves that in.

Best;
Dave
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xx Re: Ok..... Camel rule !!!!!
« Reply #776 on: Oct 19th, 2009, 11:40am »

Sorry, that should read 'unmixed' audio, not 'unimixed'

rolleyes

Not sure what 'unimixed' audio is huh
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xx Re: Ok..... Camel rule !!!!!
« Reply #777 on: Oct 19th, 2009, 1:09pm »

The December Record Collector turned up today.
At the back there is an article, a page and a bit long, about a group they call "an unsung hero of prog".
Whether it's worth £3:90 of your money for what is a very small part of the magazine is up to you but it's finally there.

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xx Re: Ok..... Camel rule !!!!!
« Reply #778 on: Oct 19th, 2009, 1:25pm »

Hello again Dave..thanks so much for your reply!
Good to talk to you again.
Lost your contact details from the Rajaz forum, and only recently discovered the "migration" over to this forum. Great to read everyones' imput!

I take on board everything you said regarding Andys' activities since the 2003 tour, although what I really was referring to was the period from Dec 2008 up til now, following your completion of the project and Andy's input on the audio side of things. The impression I got from CP is that Andy's health had much improved and that he was starting to get much more involved again. Added to this was the announcement from CP that the DVD was possibly originally scheduled for around Christmas 2008, and I'd recently been wondering about the possible
reasons for the delay in the release.


Yes I'm sure that his recent experiences have made him re-focus on things and maybe re-evaluate his life somewhat...I'm not being critical here, I am just really really eager for more Camel and am so much looking forward to this DVD!!

Also agree with the comment from AliveCamel, about the charm of the odd blip or two..what I think I was trying to say is that to me the odd mistake has never been an issue, and as stated it can sometime lead somewhere more interesting!.
Unless there was a real disaster which really needed correcting, I think Camel could easily get away with releasing the soundtrack as it was, as 99% would be spot on. Nothing against a good audio mix to enhance the sound though!

Cheers

Peter

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xx Re: Ok..... Camel rule !!!!!
« Reply #779 on: Oct 20th, 2009, 05:30am »

on Oct 18th, 2009, 4:36pm, alivecamel wrote:
unless there's a complete train wreck the odd slip is all part of the live experience and can even add to its charm.



Like that moment in The Last Waltz when Clapton's strap comes off his guitar... wink

Can't wait for this DVD...
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