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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Critics ignore prog (rant)  (Read 2244 times)
CountingOutTime
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #20 on: Oct 26th, 2016, 10:11am »

on Oct 25th, 2016, 8:41pm, rael1974 wrote:
A lot of people aren't even aware of music outside of the mainstream. This was me at one point in time. I think casual listeners would be more open to progressive rock and similar music if it were represented in mainstream music and radio. There have been instances where progressive rocks songs and other longer, complex, or unorthodox songs became hits. Some examples include:

"A Day In The Life" - The Beatles
"Foreplay/Long Time" - Boston
"Lucky Man" - ELP
"From The Beginning" - ELP
"I Know What I Like" - Genesis
"Mama" - Genesis
"Locomotive Breath" - Jethro Tull
"Carry On My Wayward Son" - Kansas
"Stairway To Heaven" - Led Zeppelin
"Kashmir" - Led Zeppelin
"Free Bird" - Lynyrd Skynyrd
"Tuesday Afternoon" - The Moody Blues
"Nights In White Satin" - The Moody Blues
"Time" - Pink Floyd
"Wish You Were Here" - Pink Floyd
"Bohemian Rhapsody" - Queen
"Tom Sawyer" - Rush
"Lime Light" - Rush
"Come Sail Away" - Styx
"I've Seen All Good People" - Yes
"Roundabout" - Yes


The problem lies wherein the radio version is almost always abbreviated. I remember the days when they would play full length versions of songs like Nights In White Satin on the radio.
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #21 on: Oct 26th, 2016, 4:05pm »

on Oct 25th, 2016, 8:41pm, rael1974 wrote:
A lot of people aren't even aware of music outside of the mainstream. This was me at one point in time. I think casual listeners would be more open to progressive rock and similar music if it were represented in mainstream music and radio. There have been instances where progressive rocks songs and other longer, complex, or unorthodox songs became hits. Some examples include:

"A Day In The Life" - The Beatles
"Foreplay/Long Time" - Boston
"Lucky Man" - ELP
"From The Beginning" - ELP
"I Know What I Like" - Genesis
"Mama" - Genesis
"Locomotive Breath" - Jethro Tull
"Carry On My Wayward Son" - Kansas
"Stairway To Heaven" - Led Zeppelin
"Kashmir" - Led Zeppelin
"Free Bird" - Lynyrd Skynyrd
"Tuesday Afternoon" - The Moody Blues
"Nights In White Satin" - The Moody Blues
"Time" - Pink Floyd
"Wish You Were Here" - Pink Floyd
"Bohemian Rhapsody" - Queen
"Tom Sawyer" - Rush
"Lime Light" - Rush
"Come Sail Away" - Styx
"I've Seen All Good People" - Yes
"Roundabout" - Yes


Well, a lot of those songs weren't quite "hits", but rather just well known, favorite songs from those bands. And it would be a stretch to consider them particularly "complex" or "unorthodox". For the most part, you just listed a bunch of catchy, popular tunes by bands typically associated with or identified as "prog".
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #22 on: Oct 26th, 2016, 4:39pm »

That is the first time I've ever seen Band On The Run associated with prog.
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #23 on: Oct 26th, 2016, 7:22pm »

on Oct 26th, 2016, 4:05pm, HENRY wrote:
Well, a lot of those songs weren't quite "hits", but rather just well known, favorite songs from those bands. And it would be a stretch to consider them particularly "complex" or "unorthodox". For the most part, you just listed a bunch of catchy, popular tunes by bands typically associated with or identified as "prog".


That's true. I should've been more specific. What I meant by "complex" and "unorthodox" was that these songs offered things that were different than a standard pop hit. Obviously none of these songs are on the same level as "Supper's Ready" or "Close To The Edge".
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #24 on: Oct 27th, 2016, 07:20am »

on Oct 26th, 2016, 4:39pm, FeelItComing wrote:
That is the first time I've ever seen Band On The Run associated with prog.

You heard it here first! grin
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #25 on: Oct 27th, 2016, 12:10pm »

on Oct 26th, 2016, 10:11am, CountingOutTime wrote:
I remember the days when they would play full length versions of songs like Nights In White Satin on the radio.

Bad example. The "full version" of "Nights In White Satin" is actually that song plus the spoken piece "Late Lament."

From the same album, radio stations also used to play the "full version" of "Tuesday Afternoon," which was actually that song plus the next one.

Blame it on the confusing titling/track division on the original album.

But I know what you mean.
« Last Edit: Oct 27th, 2016, 12:10pm by onetwothree » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #26 on: Oct 27th, 2016, 12:23pm »

on Oct 27th, 2016, 12:10pm, onetwothree wrote:
Bad example. The "full version" of "Nights In White Satin" is actually that song plus the spoken piece "Late Lament."

From the same album, radio stations also used to play the "full version" of "Tuesday Afternoon," which was actually that song plus the next one.

Blame it on the confusing titling/track division on the original album.

But I know what you mean.


Yep. You're correct. On radio station KMET (now defunct) here in SoCal they used to play "Late Lament" after "Nights In White Satin." Thanks for pointing that out.

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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #27 on: Oct 27th, 2016, 4:52pm »

on Oct 27th, 2016, 07:20am, foxfeeder wrote:
You heard it here first! grin


But why? Is it because it's divided into several sections? I am passionate about it & have loved it since I heard it when it was first released, but I've never thought of it as 'prog'. The song, that is. Now I think about it both the album & Venus & Mars could perhaps be said to have vaguely prog elements.
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #28 on: Oct 28th, 2016, 07:14am »

on Oct 27th, 2016, 4:52pm, FeelItComing wrote:
But why? Is it because it's divided into several sections? I am passionate about it & have loved it since I heard it when it was first released, but I've never thought of it as 'prog'. The song, that is. Now I think about it both the album & Venus & Mars could perhaps be said to have vaguely prog elements.


Well, the sectional thing is one element that defines prog. And, after all, the Beatles were one of the pioneers of prog, by striving beyond the simple 3 minute pop song, so I'd say it's credentials are there. There are lots of proggy singles in the 70's, another that was missed is Question by the Moody blues.

Incidentally, in reply to the "full version of "Nights" points, Graeme Edge maintains the reason it was a hit again in 72 is because one DJ in the US used it as his "go to the loo" track, due to it's length. Also, the only time I've come across the standard, single edit version (without the orchestra coming in after line one of the final verse) on CD is on "Ballads"
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #29 on: Oct 28th, 2016, 12:43pm »

on Oct 26th, 2016, 4:39pm, FeelItComing wrote:
That is the first time I've ever seen Band On The Run associated with prog.


I've always thought it was quite proggy. In the same way as 10cc's I'm Mandy Fly Me, John Miles Music and of course, Queen's Bo Rhap.
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #30 on: Oct 28th, 2016, 4:40pm »

Would anyone consider the Eagles' Journey Of The Sorcerer or the title track of Long Road Out Of Eden to have prog elements? For the most part they were the opposite of anything prog related but those two songs sprang to mind.

Some Eagles fans don't like the song LROOE because it has elements of Middle Eastern music which reflect the song's lyrics about the war in Iraq. They think it makes the song 'drag'. I would hope I would get opposite opinions here, perhaps! (It was released in 2007 so it obviously isn't 70s).
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #31 on: Oct 28th, 2016, 4:47pm »

on Oct 28th, 2016, 4:40pm, FeelItComing wrote:
Would anyone consider the Eagles' Journey Of The Sorcerer or the title track of Long Road Out Of Eden to have prog elements? For the most part they were the opposite of anything prog related but those two songs sprang to mind.

Some Eagles fans don't like the song LROOE because it has elements of Middle Eastern music which reflect the song's lyrics about the war in Iraq. They think it makes the song 'drag'. I would hope I would get opposite opinions here, perhaps! (It was released in 2007 so it obviously isn't 70s).


IMO, The Eagles never did anything that would be considered prog, but they were certainly progressive in their genres of country rock and soft rock. I love The Long Road Out Of Eden album and just about every song on it, but I wouldn't call it prog.
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #32 on: Oct 29th, 2016, 1:44pm »

on Oct 28th, 2016, 4:40pm, FeelItComing wrote:
Would anyone consider the Eagles' Journey Of The Sorcerer or the title track of Long Road Out Of Eden to have prog elements? For the most part they were the opposite of anything prog related but those two songs sprang to mind.

Some Eagles fans don't like the song LROOE because it has elements of Middle Eastern music which reflect the song's lyrics about the war in Iraq. They think it makes the song 'drag'. I would hope I would get opposite opinions here, perhaps! (It was released in 2007 so it obviously isn't 70s).


For people in the UK at least, Sorcerer is forever associated with the radio series of Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy. I've never heard the full thing, (listening now on Youtube.) but I could see it being considered prog by some. This is the thing with prog: It's such a broad church, and one man's prog is another man's classic rock/psychedelia etc.
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #33 on: Feb 14th, 2017, 08:54am »

Some of the things touched on in a 'genres' thread on this forum are highlighted here, particularly the question of what prog "is". It surely can't be pinned down to multiple time signatures or multiple sections. By that measure, prog songs would include The Show by Girls Aloud, Silver Star by The Four Seasons, Hey Ya by Outkast, Everybody Wants To Rule The World by Tears For Fears, Say A Little Prayer by Aretha Franklin... etc etc.

As to critics ignoring prog, I don't generally read or watch critics, certainly not music ones anyway. There's certainly been a bit of sniffiness about prog rock, except where certain prog acts are regarded as being at the 'cooler', more acceptable end of the spectrum. Floyd seem to manage this, and Dark Side will often crop up in 'best album' lists; Crimson King seems to still be held up as some sort of key moment in rock music. For me, it's more that specifically Genesis hardly seem to trouble any of those lists unless it's specifically a 'prog albums' list.

People are of course wrong to parrot this thing about punk "killing off" prog rock. Punk/new wave gave people something else to listen to - it would often be referred to as 'alternative rock' - and some bands that kind of withered a bit in the late 70s were probably going to expire anyway. Whereas Yes, Genesis and ELP all had their first big chart hits and played huge sell-out shows during and after the punk explosion. I think some music press journos resented this, and made these bands into targets for not playing ball and dying, and I think that has kind of persisted to this day.
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xx Re: Critics ignore prog (rant)
« Reply #34 on: May 9th, 2017, 07:45am »

on Oct 25th, 2016, 09:44am, CountingOutTime wrote:
I am in the group of fans who feel Marillion haven't been prog since Fish's departure.


on Oct 25th, 2016, 10:25am, Noni wrote:
Marillion after Fish's departure has lost the tempo of traditional prog, but I do like Hogarth's voice and some of later Marillion's music.. I still prefer their earlier music and to say they are not progressive, I do not agree.


I don't care whether Marillion are regarded as prog or not now. I just think they became an overall better band with their own identity, whereas in the Fish days they were widely perceived as a poor man's Genesis.

Whether people like the Hogarth version or not, no one can seriously call them Genesis clones 1989 onwards. Unless they're deaf or a bit thick. Hogarth brought with him very different influences.
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