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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Some observations about Tony  (Read 5368 times)
foxfeeder
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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #60 on: May 27th, 2017, 1:57pm »

on May 27th, 2017, 1:48pm, Fabrizio wrote:
I agree with everything.


"falls over in disbelief!"

wink
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Fabrizio
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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #61 on: May 27th, 2017, 2:55pm »

on May 27th, 2017, 1:57pm, foxfeeder wrote:
"falls over in disbelief!"

wink

laugh I don't think it's the first time I've ever said that Tony has his limitations. To me he is someone who gets 80% 'there', he has the chords, the harmonies, the melodies and the lirycs but needs a decisive external input.
Peter would fight him over editing and adding vocals.
Phil would help him arrange his stuff and being more accessible and it is true that the way he builds up songs is quite mathematical, music sort of is, once he starts playing something you sort of know where he is going, that's why he needs the others imo, I think he came to realize that, after probably believing for some time he could be self-sufficient.
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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #62 on: May 28th, 2017, 07:22am »

What is "mathematical" in Tony's writing? I don't get that huh
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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #63 on: May 28th, 2017, 08:01am »

on May 28th, 2017, 07:22am, Schrottrocker wrote:
What is "mathematical" in Tony's writing? I don't get that huh


I am not sure I can explain that in satisfactory way but I'll try:
Think about his crescendos, soloes and melodies. Absolutely beautiful IMO but when he starts with something you kind of know what follows or where it is going to go. It is not meant to despective or to say that he is predictable but he follows rules, we instictevely follow those rules too when listening to a melody. You don't need to a musician, it's cultural, when listening to Indian or Chinese music we are completely lost, we have no idea what's being played and what is going to follow, they follow other scales patterns. You might want to read about tonal and modal music.
I give you two Beatles songs as an example: Hallo Goodbye and Stawberry fields forever. The former by Paul demonstrated absolute control of the said rules you hear it and after two verses you know what's going to follow, by the way, it could go anywhere but you'd know anyway, chords follow a natural progression which sounds familiar. The second is absolutely free and loose in its form.
Tony is more than a McCartney kind of writer, Peter is more in the Lennon camp.
Sorry if it sounds confusing but I wouldn't know how to explain it better.
« Last Edit: May 28th, 2017, 08:14am by Fabrizio » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #64 on: May 28th, 2017, 1:18pm »

on May 28th, 2017, 08:01am, Fabrizio wrote:
I am not sure I can explain that in satisfactory way but I'll try:
Think about his crescendos, soloes and melodies. Absolutely beautiful IMO but when he starts with something you kind of know what follows or where it is going to go. It is not meant to despective or to say that he is predictable but he follows rules, we instictevely follow those rules too when listening to a melody. You don't need to a musician, it's cultural, when listening to Indian or Chinese music we are completely lost, we have no idea what's being played and what is going to follow, they follow other scales patterns. You might want to read about tonal and modal music.
I give you two Beatles songs as an example: Hallo Goodbye and Stawberry fields forever. The former by Paul demonstrated absolute control of the said rules you hear it and after two verses you know what's going to follow, by the way, it could go anywhere but you'd know anyway, chords follow a natural progression which sounds familiar. The second is absolutely free and loose in its form.
Tony is more than a McCartney kind of writer, Peter is more in the Lennon camp.
Sorry if it sounds confusing but I wouldn't know how to explain it better.


I think I see your point but I don't agree. wink For those two Beatles songs, I basically agree but I don't see them as so extreme as you describe them. Both have their share of familiar ground as well as their surprise moments. For Tony's writing, I would rather have put him in the 'surprise' corner, he often uses quite unusual chord progressions. Maybe once you know his style it gets familiar but judged by what could be considered standard pop music formulas he is really far out.
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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #65 on: May 29th, 2017, 06:22am »

on May 28th, 2017, 1:18pm, Schrottrocker wrote:
I think I see your point but I don't agree. wink For those two Beatles songs, I basically agree but I don't see them as so extreme as you describe them. Both have their share of familiar ground as well as their surprise moments. For Tony's writing, I would rather have put him in the 'surprise' corner, he often uses quite unusual chord progressions. Maybe once you know his style it gets familiar but judged by what could be considered standard pop music formulas he is really far out.

I see that I wasn't able to explain myself and it was to be expected and entirely my fault but just to clarify: I never said that he is unoriginal and I did say he is not predictable, just that being a chords driven composer, just like you said places him immediatly in a specific area which is different from instance from those songwriters who come up with a tune from nowhere or work around two chords to build up the song.
« Last Edit: May 29th, 2017, 06:23am by Fabrizio » User IP Logged

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