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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Some observations about Tony  (Read 3621 times)
TMATMATMA
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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #30 on: May 20th, 2017, 11:52am »

Definitely heard Tony say he liked the first part of Moonlit Knight, not so much afterwards. The latter part of Volcano does have a very similar feel to it.
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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #31 on: May 20th, 2017, 12:52pm »

on May 20th, 2017, 11:52am, TMATMATMA wrote:
Definitely heard Tony say he liked the first part of Moonlit Knight, not so much afterwards. The latter part of Volcano does have a very similar feel to it.

I think it was Mike or at least Mike too.
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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #32 on: May 21st, 2017, 12:49am »

In the 2007 interviews, Mike said the start and first bit of Dance on a Volcano but he wasn't sure about the rest - or something similar. I'm pretty sure Tony has hinted that he didn't like it or and that the band couldn't play it well enough. In any case, it was cut from DoaV from 1977 onwards. Steve said in the 2007 interviews that the outro for that song was his.

And Tony is very vocal about his hatred for After the Ordeal, which sounds like a Steve bit. In a Q&A when asked what their least favourite Genesis songs were Phil alluded to Me & Virgil and Tony said After the Ordeal!
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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #33 on: May 21st, 2017, 03:11am »

on May 21st, 2017, 12:49am, WutheringNights76 wrote:
And Tony is very vocal about his hatred for After the Ordeal, which sounds like a Steve bit. In a Q&A when asked what their least favourite Genesis songs were Phil alluded to Me & Virgil and Tony said After the Ordeal!


phil is more self-critical. he dismisses songs that he had an important input for, like me and virgil or match of the day.
« Last Edit: May 21st, 2017, 1:17pm by Kerry95 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #34 on: May 21st, 2017, 11:35am »

on May 20th, 2017, 08:32am, Schrottrocker wrote:
about DOAV I don't remember who said it, I think Phil and Mike - they stated that instrumental second half was too much showing off, the kind of stuff they didn't want Genesis to become.

Whoever said it, I agree. I've never liked that 2nd half, and it especially suffers after such a strong 1st half. It gets way too high and shrill. One of the best things they did on stage was to drop that whole section.

on May 21st, 2017, 12:49am, WutheringNights76 wrote:
Tony is very vocal about his hatred for After the Ordeal, which sounds like a Steve bit.


Yes I think the first section is by Hackett and I read a while back that the 2nd half, where the drums come in, is by Rutherford. Banks described his piano playing as "atrocious" and that he can't bear to listen to the track. I really like it.
« Last Edit: May 21st, 2017, 11:38am by Backdrifter » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #35 on: May 21st, 2017, 11:56am »

on May 21st, 2017, 11:35am, Backdrifter wrote:
Banks described his piano playing as "atrocious" and that he can't bear to listen to the track. I really like it.


I sometimes get the impression Tony and the others never re-listen to what they recorded and still carry some attitude about songs they had in the recording session.
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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #36 on: May 21st, 2017, 12:19pm »

on May 21st, 2017, 03:11am, Kerry95 wrote:
phil is more self-critical. he dismisses songs that he had an important imput for, like me and virgil or match of the day.

Well, in those particular instances he hasn't been self-critical but objectivesmiley Seriously though, I think to some extent they all are:
Mike describes the lyrics to Watcher which he co-wrote as a mouthful.
Steve himself doesn't seem to be crazy about Ordeal.
Peter re-recorded some of the vocals because he found they were shite.
Tony thinks the mid-section of MMM wasn't played as good as it should have been.
This is the point of the thread though and why I don't believe that Tony is a Diva or resentful; they all are critical and speak their mind., in a quite sober and equanimous way imo.
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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #37 on: May 23rd, 2017, 05:04am »

I think if you look at the quote that Tony didn't want Phil to do THAT well...two viewpoints. Firstly, it's tongue-in-cheek and a playful remark on jealousy. Secondly, Phil doing THAT well could signal the end of the group because the solo career would be the main draw.

Regarding the way he's blunt to PG. Well, PG is probably so used to people blowing smoke up his ass that it might be their honesty with each other that keeps them really good friends to this day. It was only the other year (maybe last year) that PG made a speech for and presented TB with his Prog God award.
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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #38 on: May 24th, 2017, 11:18am »

on May 18th, 2017, 08:48am, Fabrizio wrote:
So it couldn't just be a case where Phil thought that Steve's songs weren't as 'good' as Mike's and Tony's in that moment? I cannot know obviously but it seems to me all Genesis members were always quite clear about what they llike or else, it might lead to frictions within a band but I believe it's the only healthy way to go about it, otherwise you simply allocate 25% of the record to each member which I don't really think is smart.
Look at George Harrison with the Beatles, some might argue he had it rough there as a songwriter, some others, including myself simply may think that John and Paul were better.


I think "Within you Without you" is the best track on Sgt. Pepper, always have.
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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #39 on: May 24th, 2017, 11:19am »

on May 19th, 2017, 4:08pm, Yild4Genesis wrote:
That's life in a band though, isn't it? Five guys all with differing views coming together to make something special but still five individuals ....


5 people in the Moody Blues, always managed to work together amicably. Doesn't mean other bands can, could or should, but it can be done.
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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #40 on: May 24th, 2017, 1:43pm »

on May 24th, 2017, 11:18am, foxfeeder wrote:
I think "Within you Without you" is the best track on Sgt. Pepper, always have.

And it's perfectly Ok but I don't think it is enough to question who the main songwriters in the band were. It's A Day in the life for me btw. I'm boring that way wink
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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #41 on: May 25th, 2017, 07:03am »

on May 24th, 2017, 1:43pm, Fabrizio wrote:
And it's perfectly Ok but I don't think it is enough to question who the main songwriters in the band were. It's A Day in the life for me btw. I'm boring that way wink


But it illustrates the point. George had 3 lp's worth of stuff bottled up by the time the Beatles split. He had good stuff, but it wasn't used. Maybe some, or even all, wasn't considered as good as what was used, but it would have diversified the band's sound.
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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #42 on: May 25th, 2017, 08:05am »

on May 25th, 2017, 07:03am, foxfeeder wrote:
But it illustrates the point. George had 3 lp's worth of stuff bottled up by the time the Beatles split. He had good stuff, but it wasn't used. Maybe some, or even all, wasn't considered as good as what was used, but it would have diversified the band's sound.

I remeber going through Alll things must pass which I purchased and thinking:'Oh right, I get it'.
George had all these songs piled up and wasn't able to release them on the Beatles' albums, he also was quite resentful about it but personally when I hear the album, with exception of 1 or 2 songs, I sort of understand why they didn't make the final cut, how many of those songs are being rememberd today? That understanding is confirmed by his solo career.
I'm not saying that he wasn't capable of occasionally writing the good song but imo that was about it, occasional.
And yes, just to address it, there might be a parallel with Steve there, actually more than one.
As for diversifying a band's sound, I don't know, it might be a good idea, or less, it depends on the quality I guess, I certainly wouldn't doing it for the sake of diversifying, in Genesis case for instance I wouldn't have allocated 25% of the album to Steve by default just to diversify.
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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #43 on: May 25th, 2017, 1:48pm »

on May 25th, 2017, 07:03am, foxfeeder wrote:
George had 3 lp's worth of stuff bottled up by the time the Beatles split.

If you mean the 3 LPs of ALL THINGS MUST PASS... well, it was actually 2 LPs plus the "Apple Jam." Although, technically, I'm sure he had another LP's worth of material written that wasn't used on ATMP.

on May 25th, 2017, 08:05am, Fabrizio wrote:
I wouldn't have allocated 25% of the album to Steve by default just to diversify.

Every time I hear about Steve wanting each of the four guys to write 25% of WIND & WUTHERING, I wonder... did he think Phil was prepared at that point to contribute 25% of a Genesis album? (PS: By my best estimate, Steve actually did write close to 25% of W&W.)
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xx Re: Some observations about Tony
« Reply #44 on: May 25th, 2017, 2:07pm »

I think ATMP is Beatle quality.
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