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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Sum Of The Parts  (Read 11546 times)
peschiNL
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xx Re: Sum Of The Parts
« Reply #30 on: Nov 26th, 2014, 5:35pm »

on Nov 24th, 2014, 07:37am, MikeTGA wrote:
No Genesis documentary has been flawless,


A History was flawless.

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alanh
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xx Re: Sum Of The Parts
« Reply #31 on: Nov 28th, 2014, 05:24am »

Hi there



Err, no it wasn't!



Alan H
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peschiNL
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xx Re: Sum Of The Parts
« Reply #32 on: Nov 28th, 2014, 06:17am »

on Nov 28th, 2014, 05:24am, alanh wrote:
Hi there



Err, no it wasn't!


okay top 10 flaws of A History by alanh:

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inthatquietearth
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xx Re: Sum Of The Parts
« Reply #33 on: Nov 28th, 2014, 7:56pm »

First post, folks (Genesis fan for 28 years, just got around to activating!)

I've not yet seen Sum of the Parts (though "Some" of the Parts does seem more appropriate from the reviews!), but have watched "A History" and "Songbook" many times.

In my opinion, "A History" is a pretty complete and unbiased account of the band's story up until ~1990, and even includes a few glimpses of the solo work of Tony ("Quicksilver!"), Mike, Phil and Pete. Though Steve's solo albums are not discussed, he is shown soloing a couple times and has some face time, as does Ant. I

"Songbook" compresses everything down and feels incomplete/edited, but as it's circa 2001, it does include Ray Wilson.

'm sure one could nitpick, but in honesty, every telling of the band's long story is going to have omissions, retreads, revisions, the author's personal biases. Heck, i've been reading "Chapter & Verse" again, and even as a fairly complete/current story in the band's own words, it's amazing how brief a mention many of the albums get, particularly Abacab through CAS. For a more full description of the first decade, one needs Gallo's "I Know What I Like", and various other bios fill in bits and pieces but, let's be honest, no one tells a complete story or gives every band member equal time.
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xx Re: Sum Of The Parts
« Reply #34 on: Nov 29th, 2014, 05:19am »

on Nov 28th, 2014, 7:56pm, inthatquietearth wrote:
First post, folks (Genesis fan for 28 years, just got around to activating!)

I've not yet seen Sum of the Parts (though "Some" of the Parts does seem more appropriate from the reviews!), but have watched "A History" and "Songbook" many times.

In my opinion, "A History" is a pretty complete and unbiased account of the band's story up until ~1990, and even includes a few glimpses of the solo work of Tony ("Quicksilver!"), Mike, Phil and Pete. Though Steve's solo albums are not discussed, he is shown soloing a couple times and has some face time, as does Ant. I

"Songbook" compresses everything down and feels incomplete/edited, but as it's circa 2001, it does include Ray Wilson.

'm sure one could nitpick, but in honesty, every telling of the band's long story is going to have omissions, retreads, revisions, the author's personal biases. Heck, i've been reading "Chapter & Verse" again, and even as a fairly complete/current story in the band's own words, it's amazing how brief a mention many of the albums get, particularly Abacab through CAS. For a more full description of the first decade, one needs Gallo's "I Know What I Like", and various other bios fill in bits and pieces but, let's be honest, no one tells a complete story or gives every band member equal time.

Welcome to the forum, inthatquietearth. cool
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xx Re: Sum Of The Parts
« Reply #35 on: Dec 1st, 2014, 2:33pm »

I have now watched Sum of the Parts. There's not much I can say that hasn't already been said. A marvelous opportunity to document the history of this amazing band and the quantity and quality of the solo work has been (IMO) missed. I was very disappointed with the omission of Steve's entire solo career and the skipping of Wind. It's also a shame that Ant's solo work wasn't mentioned at all.

Found some of the individual interview extras interesting especially Mike telling the story of the double neck guitar. Phil has surely now killed of any prospect of Genesis ever doing anything together again - his life is now focused on his kids and he states that he has no interest in doing anything with Genesis.

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xx Re: Sum Of The Parts
« Reply #36 on: Dec 1st, 2014, 3:52pm »

on Nov 26th, 2014, 5:35pm, peschiNL wrote:
A History was flawless.



A History, in my opinion, is the best of them, but it's not perfect. In fact, like T&A, A History glosses over W&W, only showing the album cover, then launching immediately into Steve's departure rather than any discussion about the album.

I watched it again on YouTube recently and had to laugh as I noticed that the narrator kind of comes and goes, as if they only had enough interview coverage for certain parts of the band's history. I'd never noticed that in my countless other viewings since 1990, when I bought the VHS.


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xx Re: Sum Of The Parts
« Reply #37 on: Dec 1st, 2014, 9:58pm »

I figure that the task of telling the history of Genesis and its members is a quite demanding one when it comes to the narration. Up until the end of the 70s it's fairly easy: you only have to follow the band's albums, tours and other events chronologically. Voyage of the Acolyte and Brand X can easily be squeezed in between The Lamb and ATOTT. A few years later, however, there are apart from the band's accomplishments six solo careers to cover (including Ant). Now the task is much trickier. How can these seven parallel stories be told without loosing focus? Three of them (Tony's, Mike's and Phil's) are of course tied chronologically with the band's history in the way that they alternated between band work and solo work, thus not doing both at the same time. On the other hand Peter's, Steve's and Ant's solo projects naturally follow a completely separate time-line from that of the remaining band members.

I myself work as an editor and occasional writer of books and essays, so I'm quite accustomed to thinking of how a story should be told. But when it comes to the history of Genesis I simply cannot straight away tell which disposition would be the right one, because there are these seven parallel threads. I would have to give it some serious and lengthy thought. It could be done strictly chronological, but it would take ages to mention every solo album and bore everyone. On the other hand it could be done thematically (dealing with each solo career after the other), but then it would be stretched out to such an extent that the viewer would have difficulties following the chronology of the band itself! The solution would be to alternate between the seven threads repeatedly, but of course that would confuse the viewer and draw the attention away from the development of the band.

Mike said in an interview that in the first draft of the documentary there was even less mention of the solo careers, so apparently the editor of the documentary had tried to skip the tricky task of dealing with the solo careers, even though this was supposed to be the theme of the documentary! Then the production team was changed, and the result became a little better. But I understand very well why the solo careers were given so little time, and why Steve's solo career wasn't mentioned at all. These things simply didn't fit the mode of narration!

This is why Sum of the Parts ended up as Some of the Parts. Not enough thought was given to how to present all these parallel threads as a unit. But was it even possible to accomplish?

« Last Edit: Dec 1st, 2014, 10:03pm by AnythingNow » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Sum Of The Parts
« Reply #38 on: Dec 2nd, 2014, 04:12am »

Hi there



Not within ninety minutes or two hours, no.



Alan H
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xx Re: Sum Of The Parts
« Reply #39 on: Dec 2nd, 2014, 04:15am »

They should have got Pete Frame in to do a Genesis Family Tree - the BBC versions of his work were good and a show like that would have fitted the brief very well IMO.
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xx Re: Sum Of The Parts
« Reply #40 on: Dec 2nd, 2014, 04:21am »

Hi there


That would definitely have been a much better idea and at least then EVERY band member might have been evenly represented.



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peschiNL
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xx Re: Sum Of The Parts
« Reply #41 on: Dec 2nd, 2014, 07:49am »

could be easily done in a two hour feature.

Main problem with SoP was that the majority of the time you see these "celebrities" talking how important the band was. They have zero added value, and just give the feature the feeling of a very long commercial. If you compare it to A History, there you see the majority of the time is given to actual interview, let the bandmembers tell the history of the band.
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xx Re: Sum Of The Parts
« Reply #42 on: Dec 2nd, 2014, 09:38am »

on Dec 2nd, 2014, 07:49am, peschiNL wrote:
could be easily done in a two hour feature.

Main problem with SoP was that the majority of the time you see these "celebrities" talking how important the band was. They have zero added value, and just give the feature the feeling of a very long commercial. If you compare it to A History, there you see the majority of the time is given to actual interview, let the bandmembers tell the history of the band.


Agreed...reminiscent of those independent "Inside Genesis 1970-1975 Critical Review" DVDs. I like reading the comments and opinions of other fans and critics, but a documentary should stick to those that know, those who were there, and present facts. Then again, memories have holes and even the band members' accounts sometimes vary ( e.g. did Phil play the demo for ITAT to Tony and Mike? Was Mike wearing a dressing gown at Phil's audition? Sources vary!)
Also, one gets the feeling that the same stories have been told so many times, the telling is either rote, or the guys vary little facts and phrases to keep it interesting.

So far, the best documentary on film might just be "A History" and then watch all of the album docs from the Rhino box sets. Great stuff in those.
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xx Re: Sum Of The Parts
« Reply #43 on: Dec 3rd, 2014, 3:19pm »

We all agree this doc is incomplete and desappionting to all of us in general for so many reasons...
My question is; what did you like in this documentary ?

Just curious ;-)
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xx Re: Sum Of The Parts
« Reply #44 on: Dec 3rd, 2014, 8:32pm »

Not much then...

rolleyes
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