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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Heard Nursery Cryme for the first time- my inputs  (Read 1175 times)
NoSonOfVine
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xx Re: Heard Nursery Cryme for the first time- my inp
« Reply #15 on: Dec 6th, 2017, 04:37am »

on Dec 5th, 2017, 4:24pm, Fabrizio wrote:
...it is not enough, as for as I am concerned, to drag down an entire album.

Misunderstanding doesn't drag down Duke entirely, it's just a sad blight on an otherwise wonderful record, a song I always skip, and because of that one song I cannot call the album a masterpiece. I've made several attempts to like that song but eventually I had to give up.

As Dust once said, it's not just bad for Genesis, it would be a bad song by any band. And he's right in my opinion. It's a grumpy, charmless ditty, the second-worst song they made. I'm so glad that they didn't play it on their final tour. It's interesting to me that, on ATTWT, their first attempt at a pop rock song was done so right, but they got it so wrong one album later.
« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2017, 04:39am by NoSonOfVine » User IP Logged

Fabrizio
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xx Re: Heard Nursery Cryme for the first time- my inp
« Reply #16 on: Dec 6th, 2017, 07:01am »

on Dec 6th, 2017, 04:37am, NoSonOfVine wrote:
Misunderstanding doesn't drag down Duke entirely, it's just a sad blight on an otherwise wonderful record, a song I always skip, and because of that one song I cannot call the album a masterpiece. I've made several attempts to like that song but eventually I had to give up.

As Dust once said, it's not just bad for Genesis, it would be a bad song by any band. And he's right in my opinion. It's a grumpy, charmless ditty, the second-worst song they made. I'm so glad that they didn't play it on their final tour. It's interesting to me that, on ATTWT, their first attempt at a pop rock song was done so right, but they got it so wrong one album later.

Tell me how you really feel wink I agree entirely though and in addition of finding it extremely bad, I never thought it flows well with the rest of the record, particularly when I think about the two songs that have been left off. To me it sounds like a stab at songwriting. It has obviously been included for its single potential, Phil said it himself. I know some fans like it but I would be very curious to know what ears that song would have caught, had it been by another artist. I reckon considerably less. Anyway, Nursery Cryme....
« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2017, 07:14am by Fabrizio » User IP Logged

Backdrifter
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xx Re: Heard Nursery Cryme for the first time- my inp
« Reply #17 on: Dec 6th, 2017, 07:12am »

I don't think Misunderstanding is a bad song. It's not great, and it's not a favourite of mine, but it's okay. I do agree the live version was annoying especially the unnecessary extended bits but I like some of DS's extra touches.

The only album from the remaining list I'd class as a masterpiece is The Lamb.

NC is excellent, with the only weak spots for me being Harold and Hogweed.
« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2017, 07:16am by Backdrifter » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Heard Nursery Cryme for the first time- my inp
« Reply #18 on: Dec 6th, 2017, 07:17am »

on Dec 6th, 2017, 07:12am, Backdrifter wrote:
The only album from the remaining list I'd class as a masterpiece is The Lamb.

I wouldn't know about masterpieces or less, it's a term people toss around a lot, too frequently imo. I personally believe however that NC aside, he still hasn't listened to Genesis' best albums.
« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2017, 07:18am by Fabrizio » User IP Logged

Rico
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xx Re: Heard Nursery Cryme for the first time- my inp
« Reply #19 on: Dec 6th, 2017, 07:18am »

so you are saying that Nursery cryme is better then Foxtrot, selling England, Trick ...?
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Fabrizio
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xx Re: Heard Nursery Cryme for the first time- my inp
« Reply #20 on: Dec 6th, 2017, 07:24am »

on Dec 6th, 2017, 07:18am, Rico wrote:
so you are saying that Nursery cryme is better then Foxtrot, selling England, Trick ...?

Claro que no Che. It's not what I meant. It's imho amongst their best and it belongs in the group you just mentioned. Which one is better will be up to you.
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xx Re: Heard Nursery Cryme for the first time- my inp
« Reply #21 on: Dec 6th, 2017, 07:36am »

To my ears 'The Musical Box' is the first time that Genesis actually sound like 'Genesis' - if that makes any sense at all. It's got everything. To be fair to "FGTR" and "Trespass", I think it took most of the first wave of prog bands a record or two to find their feet (apart from Crimson maybe). Yes, VdGG, Rush, etc... they all released at least one tentative album before coalescing into their definitive sound.
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xx Re: Heard Nursery Cryme for the first time- my inp
« Reply #22 on: Dec 6th, 2017, 07:50am »

In my opinion...

Masterpieces
Selling England By The Pound
The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
A Trick Of The Tail
Wind And Wuthering

Excellent albums
Trespass
Nursery Cryme
Foxtrot
...And Then There Were Three...
Duke

Great albums
We Can't Dance
Calling All Stations

Good albums
Genesis
Invisible Touch

Mediocre albums
From Genesis To Revelation
Abacab
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Fabrizio
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xx Re: Heard Nursery Cryme for the first time- my inp
« Reply #23 on: Dec 6th, 2017, 07:50am »

on Dec 6th, 2017, 07:36am, ImperialSquonk wrote:
To my ears 'The Musical Box' is the first time that Genesis actually sound like 'Genesis' - if that makes any sense at all. It's got everything. To be fair to "FGTR" and "Trespass", I think it took most of the first wave of prog bands a record or two to find their feet (apart from Crimson maybe). Yes, VdGG, Rush, etc... they all released at least one tentative album before coalescing into their definitive sound.

Personally I think there's a lot on Trespass that sounds like Genesis.
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Fabrizio
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xx Re: Heard Nursery Cryme for the first time- my inp
« Reply #24 on: Dec 6th, 2017, 08:12am »

on Dec 6th, 2017, 07:50am, NoSonOfVine wrote:
In my opinion...

Masterpieces
Selling England By The Pound
The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
A Trick Of The Tail
Wind And Wuthering

Excellent albums
Trespass
Nursery Cryme
Foxtrot
...And Then There Were Three...
Duke

Great albums
We Can't Dance
Calling All Stations

Good albums
Genesis
Invisible Touch

Mediocre albums
From Genesis To Revelation
Abacab


In my opinion:

Great, fantastic, amazing albums, Masterpieces...Whatever...

Trespass
NC
Foxtrot
SEBTP
TLLDOB
TOTT
W&W
Duke

OK Albums

ATTW3
Genesis
CAS

Meh albums

Abacab

Bad albums

IT
WCD
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NoSonOfVine
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xx Re: Heard Nursery Cryme for the first time- my inp
« Reply #25 on: Dec 6th, 2017, 08:34am »

on Dec 6th, 2017, 07:50am, Fabrizio wrote:
Personally I think there's a lot on Trespass that sounds like Genesis.

I'd argue that the first sign of the classic Genesis sound is In The Wilderness/The Conqueror from thier first album. The way ITW carefully transitions into TC reminds me of Part 2 transitioning into Part 3 of Supper's Ready.
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Kerry95
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xx Re: Heard Nursery Cryme for the first time- my inp
« Reply #26 on: Dec 6th, 2017, 09:15am »

'nursery cryme' is an album of contrasts: very long and very short songs (such as the musical box and for absent friends), some are very powerful and some are very delicate (like the return of the giant hogweed and harlequin),...
« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2017, 09:16am by Kerry95 » User IP Logged

Fabrizio
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xx Re: Heard Nursery Cryme for the first time- my inp
« Reply #27 on: Dec 6th, 2017, 09:27am »

on Dec 6th, 2017, 09:15am, Kerry95 wrote:
'nursery cryme' is an album of contrasts: very long and very short songs (such as the musical box and for absent friends), some are very powerful and some are very delicate (like the return of the giant hogweed and harlequin),...

I have never thought of it in that way but you make a valid point: an album of contrasts.
« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2017, 09:28am by Fabrizio » User IP Logged

ImperialSquonk
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xx Re: Heard Nursery Cryme for the first time- my inp
« Reply #28 on: Dec 6th, 2017, 1:11pm »

on Dec 6th, 2017, 07:50am, Fabrizio wrote:
Personally I think there's a lot on Trespass that sounds like Genesis.


“Trespass” never really grew on me. I like Phil’s description of it in “Not Dead Yet” (p. 90-91): “the whole record seems like a blancmange ... You could put your finger in it and it would somehow reseal.”
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xx Re: Heard Nursery Cryme for the first time- my inp
« Reply #29 on: Dec 6th, 2017, 1:44pm »

on Dec 6th, 2017, 08:34am, NoSonOfVine wrote:
I'd argue that the first sign of the classic Genesis sound is In The Wilderness/The Conqueror from thier first album. The way ITW carefully transitions into TC reminds me of Part 2 transitioning into Part 3 of Supper's Ready.


Funnily enough ‘The Conqueror’ is probably my fave “FGTR” song.
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