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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Since I Lost You  (Read 1165 times)
Schrottrocker
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xx Re: Since I Lost You
« Reply #15 on: Nov 7th, 2017, 07:36am »

on Nov 7th, 2017, 06:35am, Fabrizio wrote:
As i said in the beginning, if you need to explain what the song is really about, because everybody thinks it's yet another break-up song and not even an original one, something is really missing. It is bizarre, we need an explanation to get emotional.


I have to agree you make a point even though I'm not so hard on that song as you are. But yes, I feel reminded on various movies my ex made my watch that used to bore me to death and how she would then tell me: "That movie is based on a true story!" as if that alone makes the artistic quality of a movie. Good intention doesn't necessarily make good art, yet a lot of people seem to think so. The issues you have with Since I Lost You is what issues I have with Mike's 'The Living Years' (the song), I perfectly understand his impulse to write that song, Paul Carrack's impulse to sing it and lots of people's emotional response on it, still it bothers me how shallow and corny that song is for its message. Just me of course.
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HomeByTheSea
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« Reply #16 on: Nov 7th, 2017, 08:28am »

on Nov 7th, 2017, 06:35am, Fabrizio wrote:
As for the rest, help me understand: since you cannot understand why someone would be upset by what imo is such a shallow, tasteless treatment of what is undoubtedly a tragedy there MUST be underlying issues? No, no issue.


That is your opinion that the song is tasteless. I'm not arguing that. I think for the most part, trying to write a song about losing someone because of death is nearly impossible. I can't think of any off the top of my head that succeed in bringing this harsh reality into a song. So I guess in some way I am agreement with what you say. However, I don't know if bashing the song changes the situation any.
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Fabrizio
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« Reply #17 on: Nov 7th, 2017, 08:31am »

on Nov 7th, 2017, 07:36am, Schrottrocker wrote:
I have to agree you make a point even though I'm not so hard on that song as you are. But yes, I feel reminded on various movies my ex made my watch that used to bore me to death and how she would then tell me: "That movie is based on a true story!" as if that alone makes the artistic quality of a movie. Good intention doesn't necessarily make good art, yet a lot of people seem to think so. The issues you have with Since I Lost You is what issues I have with Mike's 'The Living Years' (the song), I perfectly understand his impulse to write that song, Paul Carrack's impulse to sing it and lots of people's emotional response on it, still it bothers me how shallow and corny that song is for its message. Just me of course.


We all respond differently I guess, some people find Into Deep moving, to me it sounds like something Phil would write while stuck in traffic with the clear intent to appeal to female audiences but it's OK, in the end it's a love ballad, they say it's not difficult to write one, although it is extremely difficult to write a good one.
I see what you mean with the Living Years, still I find three main and quite important differences:
While losing a parent is certainly sad and again we all cope with it differently, it's pretty much part of life and normally neither of the parties involved would want it any differently. The other way around should simply not happen.

Mike writes about his own experience, it is perhaps not the best father-son song I have ever heard but that's me and if it works for Mike, ergo the person involved....

The living years is quite literal, you don't need Mike to explain what it is about. It may not satisfy some listeners on an emotional level but there is no misunderstanding it. What happens with Since I lost you is simply bizarre: everybody takes it for a love ballad and then likes it or less, according to personal taste but there isn't a soul able to discern it is in fact about something deeper and infinitely sadder. Why? Then Phil proceeds to explain what it is about and instead of reacting with WTF Phil??!! They go awwww, how deep. Well.....
« Last Edit: Nov 7th, 2017, 08:33am by Fabrizio » User IP Logged

Fabrizio
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« Reply #18 on: Nov 7th, 2017, 08:50am »

on Nov 7th, 2017, 08:28am, HomeByTheSea wrote:
That is your opinion that the song is tasteless. I'm not arguing that. I think for the most part, trying to write a song about losing someone because of death is nearly impossible. I can't think of any off the top of my head that succeed in bringing this harsh reality into a song. So I guess in some way I am agreement with what you say. However, I don't know if bashing the song changes the situation any.


I don't really mean to change the situation and I would like to respond to your points but I need help: what exactly is your issue with my criticism of the song? What situation are you referring to?
I think I Grieve is quite successful an attempt to describe that situation btw. I am inclined to believe but I don't know for sure, that was just storytelling and not addressed to a specific fact but I find it quite poignant.

« Last Edit: Nov 7th, 2017, 09:04am by Fabrizio » User IP Logged

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« Reply #19 on: Nov 7th, 2017, 10:53am »

on Nov 7th, 2017, 08:31am, Fabrizio wrote:
everybody takes it for a love ballad and then likes it or less, according to personal taste but there isn't a soul able to discern it is in fact about something deeper and infinitely sadder... Then Phil proceeds to explain what it is about... They go awwww, how deep.

I already knew what SILY was about long before I heard it. But this discussion has made me wonder what I'd have thought of the song if I'd heard it before I knew what it was about.

Personally, I think I would have felt much the same as I do now: that the song could be about any number of situations, but it's neither good nor bad enough to merit a lot of attention.
« Last Edit: Nov 7th, 2017, 10:54am by onetwothree » User IP Logged

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« Reply #20 on: Nov 7th, 2017, 12:14pm »

I had a listen to SILY recently and it's aged horribly compared to the other songs on WCD. This isn't to say that I'd heard it when it came out (I wasn't even alive then) but I can just tell by listening to it that, 26 years since its release, it hasn't stood the test of time at all. Say what you want about them, but as poppy as they are, at least ICD and JHKM are memorable and feel developed. And I will continue to defend the widely-despised HOMH because it continues to relax and soothe me.
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« Reply #21 on: Nov 7th, 2017, 12:40pm »

on Nov 7th, 2017, 12:14pm, NoSonOfVine wrote:
I will continue to defend the widely-despised HOMH because it continues to relax and soothe me.

I'm with you on that. HOMH may not be the most interesting song, but it's pleasant and listenable.

The live versions with the long, dragged-out ending, on the other hand... tongue
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« Reply #22 on: Nov 7th, 2017, 12:54pm »

on Nov 7th, 2017, 08:50am, Fabrizio wrote:
I don't really mean to change the situation and I would like to respond to your points but I need help: what exactly is your issue with my criticism of the song? What situation are you referring to?
I think I Grieve is quite successful an attempt to describe that situation btw. I am inclined to believe but I don't know for sure, that was just storytelling and not addressed to a specific fact but I find it quite poignant.



To call a song tasteless I think may be too harsh. I mean its not like Phil insulted anyone in the song. Maybe if you used a different word, it wouldn't seem like you are bashing the song or maybe I just don't understand your use of the word in this case?
« Last Edit: Nov 7th, 2017, 12:55pm by HomeByTheSea » User IP Logged

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« Reply #23 on: Nov 7th, 2017, 12:56pm »

on Nov 7th, 2017, 12:40pm, onetwothree wrote:
I'm with you on that. HOMH may not be the most interesting song, but it's pleasant and listenable.

The live versions with the long, dragged-out ending, on the other hand... tongue


I couldn't agree more with you both on HOMH!
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Fabrizio
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« Reply #24 on: Nov 7th, 2017, 1:14pm »

on Nov 7th, 2017, 12:54pm, HomeByTheSea wrote:
To call a song tasteless I think may be too harsh. I mean its not like Phil insulted anyone in the song. Maybe if you used a different word, it wouldn't seem like you are bashing the song or maybe I just don't understand your use of the word in this case?

I see what you mean and I realize and agree that it is a rather harsh term to use. It's not casual though, again I cannot shake off what the song is really about and what it comes across as. In that wide gap, I personally find the lack of taste. Had it been a break-up song i wouldn't have used that term, trust me. After all, taste remains subjective; doesn't it? It really shouldn't bother anybody what somebody finds tasteless.
« Last Edit: Nov 7th, 2017, 1:24pm by Fabrizio » User IP Logged

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« Reply #25 on: Nov 7th, 2017, 1:17pm »

Personally I think HOMH has some interesting chords and chords sequence. Quite unusual for them. I think I could have liked the song with different lyrics and another arrangement.
They made it too much elevator music for my taste.
« Last Edit: Nov 7th, 2017, 2:14pm by Fabrizio » User IP Logged

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« Reply #26 on: Nov 7th, 2017, 2:14pm »

on Nov 7th, 2017, 08:28am, HomeByTheSea wrote:
I think for the most part, trying to write a song about losing someone because of death is nearly impossible. I can't think of any off the top of my head that succeed in bringing this harsh reality into a song.


Writing about this subject is certainly challenging, but not impossible. Here Today by Paul McCartney is a good example of a poignant song of mourning (about John Lennon). James Taylor's Fire and Rain is at least partly about the death of a friend. And for a lesser-known option, Weeping Tile's Dogs and Thunder is a beautiful song about the aftermath of a suicide.





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« Reply #27 on: Nov 7th, 2017, 2:22pm »

Since we are at it, we might very well mention Tears in Heaven.
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« Reply #28 on: Nov 7th, 2017, 9:32pm »

Yes, Fabrizio beat me to what seems like the most obvious question. As I was reading this thread I was wondering why nobody made reference to Tears In Heaven?

As for me, SILY is rather neutral.I don't love it but I don't hate it either.

But I am rather curious to find out, for those that dislike the song so much, not for the music, but for what they consider a failed attempt to do deal with such a weighty theme, how do you rate Tears In Heaven. Did Eric Clapton miss the mark equally. Or did his tribute do the subject better justice? If so, was it because it was autobiographical for him, or is it simply a better crafted song.

Again, I am mostly impartial on the matter, just very curious how the two songs compare.

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« Reply #29 on: Nov 8th, 2017, 04:11am »

on Nov 3rd, 2017, 11:55am, Chaim wrote:
It was probably intentionally written in the way that it can also be taken as a breakup song. Tony hates the song. I think he used the word "awful".

Citation required.
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