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 poll_icon_closed  Poll  Poll Question: Which song exclusion is the most disappointing to you?
Twilight Alehouse isn't on Foxtrot VotesVotesVotes 1 (3%)
It's Yourself isn't on A Trick Of The Tail VotesVotesVotes 2 (7%)
Inside And Out isn't on Wind And Wuthering VotesVotesVotes 2 (7%)
The Day The Light Went Out isn't on ATTWT VotesImageVotes 0 (0%)
Evidence Of Autumn isn't on Duke VotesVotesVotes 4 (15%)
You Might Recall isn't on Abacab VotesVotesVotes 9 (34%)
Do The Neurotic isn't on Invisible Touch VotesVotesVotes 7 (26%)
Other VotesVotesVotes 1 (3%)
Total votes: 26  
 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Most disappointing song exclusion  (Read 2185 times)
rael1974
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question Re: Most disappointing song exclusion
« Reply #30 on: Oct 30th, 2017, 08:31am »

"You Might Recall" (or any of the other Abacab exclusions) should have replaced "Who Dunnit?" A "Naminamu/Dodo/Lurker/Submarine" suite would have been interesting too.
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Chaim
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question Re: Most disappointing song exclusion
« Reply #31 on: Oct 30th, 2017, 11:57am »

The band should have been punished by law for not putting Evidence Of Autumn on Duke. I could live easily not ever hearing Alone Tonight again.
« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2017, 12:00pm by Chaim » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Most disappointing song exclusion
« Reply #32 on: Oct 30th, 2017, 5:37pm »

on Oct 30th, 2017, 11:57am, Chaim wrote:
The band should have been punished by law for not putting Evidence Of Autumn on Duke. I could live easily not ever hearing Alone Tonight again.


Well, it would have to replace either Heathaze or Cul-de-sac, otherwise it would throw off the balance of each member having two solo songs on the album.
« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2017, 5:38pm by WutheringNights76 » User IP Logged

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question Re: Most disappointing song exclusion
« Reply #33 on: Oct 30th, 2017, 8:03pm »

I don't think it would have been an issue at that stage.
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xx Re: Most disappointing song exclusion
« Reply #34 on: Oct 31st, 2017, 08:48am »

on Oct 30th, 2017, 5:37pm, WutheringNights76 wrote:
Well, it would have to replace either Heathaze or Cul-de-sac, otherwise it would throw off the balance of each member having two solo songs on the album.


IMO Mike didn't seem to have anything amazing to offer at that point, so three good/great Banks tracks would have been fine. But if they had a "two from everyone" deal going, then I would have taken Cul-De-Sac off and put EOA in there.
« Last Edit: Oct 31st, 2017, 08:51am by Chaim » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Most disappointing song exclusion
« Reply #35 on: Oct 31st, 2017, 2:16pm »

on Oct 31st, 2017, 08:48am, Chaim wrote:
But if they had a "two from everyone" deal going, then I would have taken Cul-De-Sac off and put EOA in there.

Judging from the credits, starting from Trick, there was no deal, that would be also confirmed by the fact that Steve left because allegedly he couldn't have 25% of the album for himself, add that Phil was basically just blossoming as a songwriter, you can easily surmise the absence of any such deal.
« Last Edit: Oct 31st, 2017, 2:38pm by Fabrizio » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Most disappointing song exclusion
« Reply #36 on: Oct 31st, 2017, 3:05pm »

There probably wasn't any such "deal" even on DUKE. Mike & Phil each have 2 solo compositions, but Tony actually has 3 (even though one is very short). And, reportedly, "Duchess" was very close to also having been a Tony solo composition.

Whether there was a "deal" behind each guy having exactly one solo composition on ABACAB, though, we can only guess.
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xx Re: Most disappointing song exclusion
« Reply #37 on: Oct 31st, 2017, 3:13pm »

on Oct 30th, 2017, 11:57am, Chaim wrote:
The band should have been punished by law for not putting Evidence Of Autumn on Duke. I could live easily not ever hearing Alone Tonight again.


You were the one who turned me on to Evidence Of Autumn. Great song. Nice to see you back! wink grin
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xx Re: Most disappointing song exclusion
« Reply #38 on: Oct 31st, 2017, 5:19pm »

on Oct 30th, 2017, 11:57am, Chaim wrote:
The band should have been punished by law for not putting Evidence Of Autumn on Duke. I could live easily not ever hearing Alone Tonight again.


Good song, perhaps not Tony's greatest but imo better than at least a couple of songs on the album.
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question Re: Most disappointing song exclusion
« Reply #39 on: Oct 31st, 2017, 5:24pm »

I'm pretty sure I've heard members talk about Duke having a group side and a solo compositions side - and they all agreed that the group songs were superior. I have a suspicion there was an agreement to have two songs from each member - didn't they search through Phil's Face Value demos to find two songs?
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xx Re: Most disappointing song exclusion
« Reply #40 on: Oct 31st, 2017, 6:35pm »

on Oct 31st, 2017, 5:24pm, WutheringNights76 wrote:
I'm pretty sure I've heard members talk about Duke having a group side and a solo compositions side - and they all agreed that the group songs were superior. I have a suspicion there was an agreement to have two songs from each member - didn't they search through Phil's Face Value demos to find two songs?

I remember reading and hearing they thought the band's compositions were in their opinion better, particularly it was I think Tony who said that.
I personally never read about any agreement among them but obviously it doesn't mean it didn't exist, although, I would still maintain that Phil came to be considered equal as a writer as of Abacab, after his success with FV.
As for Face Value, again, I am not sure they browsed through that to find more material but Phil did volunteer some songs, among them ITAT which according to Phil they rejected and according to Tony, Phil never played to them.
Personally, I just wish Phil, would have kept Please don't ask for FV; beautiful song but too personal and slightly odd, lyrics-wise, on a Genesis album.
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xx Re: Most disappointing song exclusion
« Reply #41 on: Oct 31st, 2017, 7:03pm »

on Oct 31st, 2017, 6:35pm, Fabrizio wrote:
I remember reading and hearing they thought the band's compositions were in their opinion better, particularly it was I think Tony who said that.
I personally never read about any agreement among them but obviously it doesn't mean it didn't exist, although, I would still maintain that Phil came to be considered equal as a writer as of Abacab, after his success with FV.
As for Face Value, again, I am not sure they browsed through that to find more material but Phil did volunteer some songs, among them ITAT which according to Phil they rejected and according to Tony, Phil never played to them.
Personally, I just wish Phil, would have kept Please don't ask for FV; beautiful song but too personal and slightly odd, lyrics-wise, on a Genesis album.


Ok, it just does seem a bit of a coincidence that they have (aside from Guide Vocal) two songs each on Duke, which was scaled down to one on Abacab, before being phased out on Genesis. I agree about Please Don't Ask not being totally suitable, but, hey, I like the song, and I don't think the arrangement would be half as good if it was on Face Value.
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xx Re: Most disappointing song exclusion
« Reply #42 on: Oct 31st, 2017, 7:50pm »

on Oct 31st, 2017, 6:35pm, Fabrizio wrote:
... Phil did volunteer some songs, among them ITAT which according to Phil they rejected and according to Tony, Phil never played to them.
...


What I remember from Phil's explanation was that he offered ITAT to the band but with a strict proviso about the arrangement, which would have limited any opportunity for Tony and Mike to really contribute or fill in the sound of that track.

I also seem to recall, he offered it with the expectation they would turn it down, which was fine with him because he wanted it for his own album.
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xx Re: Most disappointing song exclusion
« Reply #43 on: Nov 1st, 2017, 08:47am »

on Oct 31st, 2017, 7:03pm, WutheringNights76 wrote:
Ok, it just does seem a bit of a coincidence that they have (aside from Guide Vocal) two songs each on Duke, which was scaled down to one on Abacab, before being phased out on Genesis. I agree about Please Don't Ask not being totally suitable, but, hey, I like the song, and I don't think the arrangement would be half as good if it was on Face Value.

Duchess is also pretty much Tony's baby, it was credited to the band because it is part of a suite.

About a possible alternative arrangement for PDA, who knows? Phil wanted to play the piano on it, although he acknowledged Tony is a far superior player, he thought that due to the fact he is classically trained, he wasn't quite right for the song. I seem to remember that PDA and Against all Odds didn't make the final cut on FV because Phil felt the had too many ballads. I truly wouldn't have minded PDA on Phil's album, with other players. A case has been made for ITAT, I am not sure Genesis would have played it better and I feel the same could apply to PDA.
« Last Edit: Nov 1st, 2017, 08:54am by Fabrizio » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Most disappointing song exclusion
« Reply #44 on: Nov 1st, 2017, 09:04am »

on Oct 31st, 2017, 7:03pm, WutheringNights76 wrote:
Ok, it just does seem a bit of a coincidence that they have (aside from Guide Vocal) two songs each on Duke, which was scaled down to one on Abacab, before being phased out on Genesis. I agree about Please Don't Ask not being totally suitable, but, hey, I like the song, and I don't think the arrangement would be half as good if it was on Face Value.


Even more coincidence that each of the solo contributions (Guide Vocal aside as it is part of the Duke Suite) are a ballad and a rockier/faster song. Heathaze, Alone Tonight and Please Don't Ask would be the ballads, Man Of Our Times, Misunderstanding and Cul-de-Sac the rock songs.
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