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Jan 23rd, 2018, 7:43pm



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 poll_icon  Poll  Poll Question: pick your fav
SEBTP VotesVotesVotes 22 (55%)
TOTT VotesVotesVotes 18 (45%)
Total votes: 40  
 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: SEBTP or TOTT?  (Read 1954 times)
FeelItComing
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xx Re: SEBTP or TOTT?
« Reply #15 on: Sep 30th, 2017, 5:14pm »

on Sep 30th, 2017, 3:03pm, snowdog wrote:
Sorry, I trimmed your quote incorrectly. I was referring to "After The Ordeal". It amazes me that many people seem to not like it.


The people who don't like ATO apparently include Tony Banks, but the last time I heard it I thought 'this is a great track'.
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Fabrizio
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xx Re: SEBTP or TOTT?
« Reply #16 on: Sep 30th, 2017, 6:09pm »

on Sep 30th, 2017, 5:14pm, FeelItComing wrote:
The people who don't like ATO apparently include Tony Banks

And Peter Gabriel, don't really know what Phil and Mike think.
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xx Re: SEBTP or TOTT?
« Reply #17 on: Sep 30th, 2017, 6:11pm »

on Sep 30th, 2017, 3:03pm, snowdog wrote:
Sorry, I trimmed your quote incorrectly. I was referring to "After The Ordeal". It amazes me that many people seem to not like it.

Oh, OK, well, I find it as I said pedestrian a bit anonimous, and again forgettable.
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xx Re: SEBTP or TOTT?
« Reply #18 on: Oct 1st, 2017, 04:22am »

I too don't get the seemingly widespread dislike of ATO, I love it. I'm also a big fan of More Fool Me, I like that it seems a bit out of place, and it's great that it follows the weight and majesty of FoF. In fact, 'side one' of the album is one of their finest ever bits of album sequencing.

The comment I remember Banks making about ATO is that he doesn't like it as he thinks his own playing on it is "atrocious". I never saw PG's comment.

As I understand it, the first part is by Hackett, the second by Rutherford.
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xx Re: SEBTP or TOTT?
« Reply #19 on: Oct 1st, 2017, 06:35am »

on Oct 1st, 2017, 04:22am, Backdrifter wrote:
The comment I remember Banks making about ATO is that he doesn't like it as he thinks his own playing on it is "atrocious". I never saw PG's comment.


I read somewhere that Tony voted against Peter for including ATO on the album though he disliked it because this secured him in turn Steve's vote for the long synth solo of The Cinema Show which Peter disliked too. Democracy, I tell ya grin
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xx Re: SEBTP or TOTT?
« Reply #20 on: Oct 1st, 2017, 07:19am »

on Oct 1st, 2017, 04:22am, Backdrifter wrote:
I too don't get the seemingly widespread dislike of ATO, I love it. I'm also a big fan of More Fool Me, I like that it seems a bit out of place, and it's great that it follows the weight and majesty of FoF. In fact, 'side one' of the album is one of their finest ever bits of album sequencing.

The comment I remember Banks making about ATO is that he doesn't like it as he thinks his own playing on it is "atrocious". I never saw PG's comment.

As I understand it, the first part is by Hackett, the second by Rutherford.

Again, More fool me doesn't overly bother me, I think I take it for what it is, a harmless, little thing, I am much more likely to skip Ordeal which I think is entirely Steve's baby but I am not sure whether others pitched in or less. Tony said he played it poorly, mainly because he truly didn't want it on the album, he has said it nearly every time when asked about it. Peter didn't want it either but he also wanted the instumental part of the Cinema Show gone, they couldn't agree so Ordeal ended up staying.
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xx Re: SEBTP or TOTT?
« Reply #21 on: Oct 1st, 2017, 08:03am »

Based on the above I suppose I must be wrong about this but I recall PG saying (by way of clarifying who wrote what) that he had nothing to do with e.g. generating the Apocalypse section or the second half of Cinema Show but was proud of being involved in them. Perhaps he later softened his view of TCS in retrospect.
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xx Re: SEBTP or TOTT?
« Reply #22 on: Oct 1st, 2017, 08:06am »

on Oct 1st, 2017, 07:19am, Fabrizio wrote:
I am much more likely to skip Ordeal which I think is entirely Steve's baby but I am not sure whether others pitched in or less.


I think it was the same TB interview I read in which he said he disliked the song and his own playing and that the 1st half is by SH and the 2nd half by MR. But I agree the whole thing sounds very Hacketty.
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xx Re: SEBTP or TOTT?
« Reply #23 on: Oct 1st, 2017, 10:34am »

on Oct 1st, 2017, 08:03am, Backdrifter wrote:
Based on the above I suppose I must be wrong about this but I recall PG saying (by way of clarifying who wrote what) that he had nothing to do with e.g. generating the Apocalypse section or the second half of Cinema Show but was proud of being involved in them. Perhaps he later softened his view of TCS in retrospect.

Who's to say? I guess we all, including myself tend to stick to their words like Gospel, when in reality, just like anybody and anything else, they each have their versión of what's happened: case in point Phil submitting ITAT to the others or less. I don't really like ATO but it is no scandal it made the final cut, I am however perplex when I read it is a great song. Great songs are imo the Cinema show or FoF and I hope we can agree Ordeal is not in that league by a longshot.
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xx Re: SEBTP or TOTT?
« Reply #24 on: Oct 1st, 2017, 11:24pm »

A close call for me, but ATOTT is slightly more consistent than SEBTP in my opinion.
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xx Re: SEBTP or TOTT?
« Reply #25 on: Oct 2nd, 2017, 12:06pm »

My instinct is to just go with ATotT, but I will try to analyse it more closely:

DWtMK is a great opener, with lots of great instrumental bits. The chorus is a bit weak though. DoaV is also a great opener, even more dramatic and more consistent throughout. I'd say it edges out DWtMK. ATotT +1.

IKWIL is fun and a bit slight. I don't have an equivalent on ATotT, so I will just match it against Squonk, which I think is a better song and is fairly straightforward. ATotT +2.

Firth of Fifth combines amazing instrumental sections with some really clunky lyrics. I'll match it against Los Endos, which isn't quite as good instrumentally but still very good, and Mad Man Moon, which has much better lyrics and lovely music. ATotT +1

More Fool Me is slight but not awful. I'll put that against the title track of ATotT, which is also is slight and forgettable for me. Score even.

TBoEF is one of my least favourite Genesis tracks - a Frankenstein's monster of many great bits that are stitched together with Peter trying to jam too many very clever lyrics in. I'll match that to RAaB, which I've never really liked aside from the keyboard solo. ATotT +1.

After the Ordeal and Aisle of Plenty are just plain forgettable and don't need to be matched against anything on ATotT. ATotT +1.

Cinema Show is one of my favourite tracks of all. Beautiful opening and verses, magical initial instrumental, fantastic 7/8 instrumental. Worth 2 great 12 string tracks on AToTT - Ripples and Entangled.

Final score: ATotT > SEbtP

« Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2017, 12:08pm by Dr. John » User IP Logged

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xx Re: SEBTP or TOTT?
« Reply #26 on: Dec 18th, 2017, 3:48pm »

Trick is more consistent, but I have to go for SEBTP. I could live without Battle, but it has two of the greatest songs of all time (you know them).

One day I will create a SEBTP playlist that just substitutes Supper's Ready for BOEF, and this will be one of the greatest albums of them all...
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xx Re: SEBTP or TOTT?
« Reply #27 on: Dec 18th, 2017, 4:25pm »

Trick
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xx Re: SEBTP or TOTT?
« Reply #28 on: Dec 22nd, 2017, 11:17pm »

Close for me but I based on this:

ATOTT I'm in the mood to listen to anytime, and it has some of my favorite instrumental moments in all of Genesis albums.

SEBTP I have to be in the mood for. Which isn't always.
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xx Re: SEBTP or TOTT?
« Reply #29 on: Dec 23rd, 2017, 08:02am »

Funny, Selling England is one of those rare albums I can always listen to no matter what. Whenever I hear it it lifts up my mood. smiley
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