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Backdrifter
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xx Fade-out endings in Genesis songs
« Thread started on: Jul 24th, 2017, 03:28am »

Apologies if this has been covered already.

I think the fade-out became much more prevalent in their work as time went on. By CAS they all fade out apart from one, correct me if I'm wrong. Sometimes I mentally will tracks to have a definite ending and kind of feel they "could have done better" with some song endings. I only just recently heard the full Paperlate and really like the "proper" ending.

I'd be interested in others' thoughts.
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xx Re: Fade-out endings in Genesis songs
« Reply #1 on: Jul 24th, 2017, 06:10am »

The CAS fade-out that annoys me the most is Congo. The song could have easily continued for another couple of minutes or so for a solid 7+ minute track, since they'd just spent 4+ minutes gradually building it up, but then it just fades out at the most unnecessary time (he's still singing as it fades out!). sad

For this reason Congo is one of the most disappointing Genesis songs to me, because it feels like a big chunk was torn away from it. It's still a good song but it could have been so much more! sad
« Last Edit: Jul 24th, 2017, 06:11am by NoSonOfVine » User IP Logged

Backdrifter
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xx Re: Fade-out endings in Genesis songs
« Reply #2 on: Jul 24th, 2017, 06:40am »

I agree Congo is a very poor fade-out ending and especially irksome that the lead vocal is still going as it fades. There's something just not right about that. (And doesn't the title track do the same?) I can imagine them book-ending Congo, ending with the same chanting as the intro. You are spot-on - I too think Congo is a good song that could have been a lot better and the weak ending has a lot to do with that.

I think I remember reading an interview where Banks and Rutherford said something about incomplete backing tracks being laid down a fair while before recruiting a singer then not having much time to do anything about it, and this was the reason for the mass set of fade-outs.
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xx Re: Fade-out endings in Genesis songs
« Reply #3 on: Jul 24th, 2017, 07:44am »

"Congo" definitely worked better in live settings, where it was presented as more of a complete song than the studio version was. Actually, the studio version could probably have been edited in such a way as to extend it and fade it out at a more reasonable time -- i.e., kind of like how the actual single edit was done, but without losing the bridge part.

Another CAS-era song that fades out too early is "Run Out of Time."
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xx Re: Fade-out endings in Genesis songs
« Reply #4 on: Jul 24th, 2017, 11:00am »

Yeah, I always felt some of the CAS fades kind of came about abruptly and weakened the song. CAS and Congo especially. IMO the fades for Shipwrecked and One Man's Fool were actually quite good!
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xx Re: Fade-out endings in Genesis songs
« Reply #5 on: Jul 24th, 2017, 11:20am »

One Man's Fool has a perfect fade-out that leaves you with the ending theme still going on in your head. Just like Supper's Ready. wink

In general, the 80's tended to put fade-outs to each and every song. Genesis were no exception. One of the rather disappointing fade-outs is Abacab. The guitar solo has just started (after a, frankly speaking, uninspired extended instrumental part) and here we go, it fades out. The live version did this solo so much more justice.
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xx Re: Fade-out endings in Genesis songs
« Reply #6 on: Jul 24th, 2017, 11:37am »

I have always found fade-outs to be a bit of a musical cop-out. They are only possible because of recording technology. Previously people always had to end songs and pieces of music when they were played live.

Many Genesis songs are better live when taken to a full ending. Abacab is one good example. Afterglow is another.

Then there are songs that have a live ending that kind of sucks in my opinion. While I love the live version of Cinema Show on Seconds Out, the manufactured ending sounds completely stuck on and out of place. The live ending for Mama is really lame and anticlimactic.
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xx Re: Fade-out endings in Genesis songs
« Reply #7 on: Jul 25th, 2017, 05:29am »

on Jul 24th, 2017, 11:37am, Dr. John wrote:
I have always found fade-outs to be a bit of a musical cop-out.

Many Genesis songs are better live when taken to a full ending. Abacab is one good example. Afterglow is another.

Then there are songs that have a live ending that kind of sucks in my opinion. While I love the live version of Cinema Show on Seconds Out, the manufactured ending sounds completely stuck on and out of place. The live ending for Mama is really lame and anticlimactic.


I agree with most of the above; a fade-out can work well or, at least, not sound too much like a cop-out. But yes the bolted-on ending of the Seconds Out Cinema Show is awful, especially after the whirlwind of instrumental brilliance preceding it. I also agree about the live Mama, a real "ah, this'll do" case. I always felt there was a strong ending waiting in the wings with that one, where they could have perhaps taken it down gradually - take out the drums, couple of bars, take out the drum machine, couple of bars, run out the underlying bass note. Something like that, anyway.

You name a couple of good ones, the Abacab ending was excellent, a great way to round off the live version which was generally pulsating with energy. Ditto Dreaming While You Sleep. Dodo/Lurker worked quite well but I can't help hearing in my mind it segueing into Submarine. Ripples and Carpet Crawlers had nice, bringing-it-down type endings. Domino was another stinker - a major case of brrrm-bmmm-tsssh, we're done.
« Last Edit: Jul 25th, 2017, 05:30am by Backdrifter » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Fade-out endings in Genesis songs
« Reply #8 on: Jul 25th, 2017, 06:17am »

I think Squonk has an early fade out as well, just as a new section is starting. I prefer the Seconds Out ending, wonder if it was edited for time or if it was tacked on - which would be strange to me because it sounds so complete.
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xx Re: Fade-out endings in Genesis songs
« Reply #9 on: Jul 25th, 2017, 06:46am »

Fade-outs have pretty much always been the standard practice for pop/rock bands, especially if the song has any potential to be a single. The template is verse-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus-chorus-chorus-fade. Prog became an exception, thankfully.
It surprised me that the band didn't fix the dodgy fades on CAS with the 2007 remix. Nick made some kind of comment on the old forum that there was no more music on the multitracks at the end of what you hear. But as mentioned above, they could have been fixed with some digital editing. I may make my own edits one day because I like the album.
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xx Re: Fade-out endings in Genesis songs
« Reply #10 on: Jul 25th, 2017, 11:38am »

on Jul 25th, 2017, 06:46am, snowdog wrote:
Fade-outs have pretty much always been the standard practice for pop/rock bands, especially if the song has any potential to be a single. The template is verse-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus-chorus-chorus-fade.


Hmmm... not sure I'd entirely agree; I don't know for sure but just as a starter I'm wondering e.g. how many early Beatles songs had fade-outs; off the top of my head, not many. (Not that that's definitive).
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xx Re: Fade-out endings in Genesis songs
« Reply #11 on: Jul 25th, 2017, 1:50pm »

on Jul 25th, 2017, 06:46am, snowdog wrote:
Prog became an exception, thankfully.


and hard rock, i might add. for example, very few songs by guns n' roses fade out, most of them have a proper ending.

anyway, it depends on the producer, i guess.
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xx Re: Fade-out endings in Genesis songs
« Reply #12 on: Jul 27th, 2017, 10:52am »

on Jul 24th, 2017, 11:20am, Schrottrocker wrote:
One Man's Fool has a perfect fade-out that leaves you with the ending theme still going on in your head. Just like Supper's Ready. wink

In general, the 80's tended to put fade-outs to each and every song. Genesis were no exception. One of the rather disappointing fade-outs is Abacab. The guitar solo has just started (after a, frankly speaking, uninspired extended instrumental part) and here we go, it fades out. The live version did this solo so much more justice.


I agree about Abacab's ending. The "fiddling around" portion should be like 30 seconds shorter, and the guitar solo 30 seconds longer IMO! Some great stuff there.

I think fades can be great on the right song. I know lots of times fades are just used to cut runtimes and maybe cos they haven't worked out an ending. But sometimes I feel it can have a nice effect. Some of the best ones for Genesis are Supper's Ready, Turn It On Again, Just A Job To Do, Invisible Touch, Hold On My Heart, and One Man's Fool. Conversely there are others that IMO weaken the song, like It, Abacab, Domino, and Congo.

I also think it's kind of interesting nowadays how almost no songs end in a fade. Which is fine I guess, but the thing is a lot of hit pop songs these days don't even have a real ending. It just sort of....cuts off abruptly. To see what I mean, just listen to ANY Ariana Grande song! For every song of hers it's like she doesn't realize the song is done, and she just stops singing halfway thru a phrase. I hate it. Or other songs where a band just literally "hits the stop button" it feels like-similar to how Phil Collins' Long Long Way To Go ends (only in that song it's appropriate, for obvious reasons).

I do have to say, out of all the bands I've listened to, I think Genesis is the best when it comes to song endings. My personal favorite is Robbery Assault and Battery. Love that melodic ending!
« Last Edit: Jul 27th, 2017, 10:55am by Billys_Number » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Fade-out endings in Genesis songs
« Reply #13 on: Jul 27th, 2017, 1:46pm »

on Jul 25th, 2017, 11:38am, Backdrifter wrote:
Hmmm... not sure I'd entirely agree; I don't know for sure but just as a starter I'm wondering e.g. how many early Beatles songs had fade-outs; off the top of my head, not many. (Not that that's definitive).


You have a point there. I just listened to Help and only "Ticket to Ride" does the repeat-to-fade thing. I guess the trend started later!
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xx Re: Fade-out endings in Genesis songs
« Reply #14 on: Jul 31st, 2017, 10:12am »

I must say I wish Seconds out's studio version ended like the live version. IMO that could've been one of the best song endings they've done. But the way it's done on ATOTT, it almost sounds unintentional.

I know this isn't a fade out, but one of my favorite endings to any of their songs is the live version of Invisible Touch. I love that dramatic ending, with Phil's vocals and those complex chords to bring everything to a dramatic end!
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