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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Sorry, Abacab. :(  (Read 5517 times)
Schrottrocker
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« Reply #30 on: Mar 17th, 2017, 07:32am »

Am I the only one who sees 'Me and Sarah Jane' as the one track that sticks out completely on this album? It is full of complex Tony chord changes and has a progressive structure, meaning it never repeats any part, unlike the verse/chorus songs. But even more, the whole sound of it is so much different from that "raw" edgy Abacab sound.
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« Reply #31 on: Mar 17th, 2017, 1:04pm »

on Mar 17th, 2017, 07:32am, Schrottrocker wrote:
Am I the only one who sees 'Me and Sarah Jane' as the one track that sticks out completely on this album? It is full of complex Tony chord changes and has a progressive structure, meaning it never repeats any part, unlike the verse/chorus songs. But even more, the whole sound of it is so much different from that "raw" edgy Abacab sound.


No I have similar thoughts. I outlined this in my original post on this thread, although I didn't mention the chord changes.

"3. The album is often times described as having an abstract and minimalist sound to it. Although I agree with this for the most part, "No Reply At All", "Me And Sara Jane", and "Like It Or Not" don't always fit these descriptions to my ears. At least parts on these songs have a fuller sound and a romanticism to them, unlike the other songs. "Like It Or Not" could work as a song on Duke if you ask me."
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« Reply #32 on: Mar 17th, 2017, 1:13pm »

on Mar 15th, 2017, 2:54pm, Fabrizio wrote:
["Like It Or Not"] should have been on a record I had the misfortune to buy; Acting very strange

As long as someone besides Mike sang it... and everything else on the album, for that matter!
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« Reply #33 on: Mar 17th, 2017, 2:59pm »

on Mar 17th, 2017, 1:13pm, onetwothree wrote:
As long as someone besides Mike sang it... and everything else on the album, for that matter!

Yeah, well, Mike deciding to sing on it was a brave but ultimately misguided move but I don't think it was the main problem with that album, as for LION, not even Phil was able to infuse some life into it.
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« Reply #34 on: Mar 18th, 2017, 12:24am »

Am I the only one that likes "Like It Or Not", whether it should have been on Abacab or not?
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« Reply #35 on: Mar 18th, 2017, 07:44am »

It's the Genesis album I play most, and have done for a few years. The production is superb, and timeless. There isn't a song on the album I ever feel inclined to skip. There are some standout tracks: Abacab, Dodo/Lurker, Me & Sarah Jane, Keep It Dark. And the outtakes from the Abacab sessions (especially You Might Recall, which alternates with Cinema Show as my favourite Genesis track) are fantastic too. I love a listen to Abacab Complete, what Abacab would have been had they gone ahead and released it as a double.

I say all that as someone who was somewhat bemused by the album on its release, given what had gone before.
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« Reply #36 on: Mar 18th, 2017, 08:08am »

on Mar 18th, 2017, 12:24am, rael1974 wrote:
Am I the only one that likes "Like It Or Not", whether it should have been on Abacab or not?

No, you're not. I like it too. Unexpectedly, at the time the album was new, it was the one track from the album I heard the most on the local radio station. And it wasn't even a single. I think the only other one they played was "No Reply At All" -- no "Abacab," no "Man On The Corner."
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« Reply #37 on: Mar 18th, 2017, 09:08am »

on Mar 18th, 2017, 07:44am, TonyEdwards wrote:
what Abacab would have been had they gone ahead and released it as a double.



That's an interesting perspective, I' have an opposite one: the best material on Abacab and Genesis would have made one hell an album, of course including You might recall.
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« Reply #38 on: Mar 18th, 2017, 09:11am »

on Mar 18th, 2017, 08:08am, onetwothree wrote:
And it wasn't even a single.

Why do you think is that? It is after all a pop song and it would have seemed like an obvious choice for a single, Instead of others
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« Reply #39 on: Mar 18th, 2017, 09:23am »

on Mar 18th, 2017, 09:11am, Fabrizio wrote:
Why do you think is that? It is after all a pop song and it would have seemed like an obvious choice for a single, Instead of others


I don't know. I think it sounds more radio-friendly than Keep It Dark, which was a single.

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« Reply #40 on: Mar 18th, 2017, 09:29am »

on Mar 18th, 2017, 09:23am, WinstonWolf wrote:
I don't know. I think it sounds more radio-friendly than Keep It Dark, which was a single.


It certainly does but the band didn't believe in it, radio-friendliness doesn't necessarily mean good and I'm strictly talking about commercial potential. Personally I doubt it would have charted but I could be wrong and the band might have taken the wrong decision.
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« Reply #41 on: Mar 18th, 2017, 09:46am »

on Mar 17th, 2017, 07:32am, Schrottrocker wrote:
Am I the only one who sees 'Me and Sarah Jane' as the one track that sticks out completely on this album? It is full of complex Tony chord changes and has a progressive structure, meaning it never repeats any part, unlike the verse/chorus songs. But even more, the whole sound of it is so much different from that "raw" edgy Abacab sound.


I'm a yes and no on that one. To me it still stands out as being the "Tony" song of the album, absolutely, but I think it would have been much different had it been on any other album besides Abacab. First, I think it does have the raw "Abacab" sound. There's more space in Tony's playing (probably because of the drum machine) but the drums slice through everything else on that track, just like every other song on Abacab.

Had Me And Sarah Jane been on Wind or Three there would have been at least two more keyboard overdubs of string or synth sounds holding down those chords, and the guitar and drums would have buried somewhere under that a la Undertow or Afterglow.

Duke is the step towards paring down their BIG sound, but it's still sitting in the middle. Abacab definitely found out just how stripped down they could get and still sound like Genesis, which is why I think it's so divisive. Everyone's opinion of what "and still sound like Genesis" means to them is different.
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« Reply #42 on: Mar 18th, 2017, 09:59am »

on Mar 18th, 2017, 09:46am, WinstonWolf wrote:
Everyone's opinion of what "and still sound like Genesis" means to them is different.

I don't know whether that has been done already but it would be an interesting thread to try and define what is Genesis' sound and what does sound like Genesis.
About Tony, I love his music: sound, songwriting and playing, to me it is the one memeber Genesis cannot live without, that said I believe he has his limitations as well and he was becoming quite monolitic. After Peter left he took over and while it was good for most of the parts it was getting too much imo and was leading the band nowhere.
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« Reply #43 on: Mar 18th, 2017, 4:18pm »

on Mar 18th, 2017, 09:08am, Fabrizio wrote:
That's an interesting perspective, I' have an opposite one: the best material on Abacab and Genesis would have made one hell an album, of course including You might recall.


To be clear, I wasn't suggesting an Abacab double album would have been a good idea - I just love listening to its unofficial release!

Much as I love the outtakes, they don't (to my ears anyway) have quite the same production values as the album tracks. I'd be interested to hear the views on this of others with a better ear than me.
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« Reply #44 on: Mar 18th, 2017, 4:37pm »

on Mar 18th, 2017, 07:44am, TonyEdwards wrote:
It's the Genesis album I play most, and have done for a few years. The production is superb, and timeless. There isn't a song on the album I ever feel inclined to skip. There are some standout tracks: Abacab, Dodo/Lurker, Me & Sarah Jane, Keep It Dark. And the outtakes from the Abacab sessions (especially You Might Recall, which alternates with Cinema Show as my favourite Genesis track) are fantastic too. I love a listen to Abacab Complete, what Abacab would have been had they gone ahead and released it as a double.

I say all that as someone who was somewhat bemused by the album on its release, given what had gone before.

So, our opinions of the album are at opposite ends of the spectrum entirely. I still think it's fascinating that two different fans of Genesis can hear the same album in entirely different ways. smiley

By the way, if I were forced to make a choice, I'd absolutely listen to Abacab over any album by Ed Sheeran, Miley Cyrus, Snoop Dogg, Nicki Minaj, Kanye West, Taylor Swift, etc. laugh
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