Board Logo
« Sorry, Abacab. :( »

Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Sep 24th, 2017, 05:18am



« Previous Topic | Next Topic »
Pages: 1 2 3 4  ...  6 Notify Send Topic Print
 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Sorry, Abacab. :(  (Read 5516 times)
Dougal
Eleventh Earl of Mar
ImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 219
thumbdown Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #15 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 09:14am »

on Mar 15th, 2017, 06:59am, NoSonOfVine wrote:
By the way, in response to Dougal, I quite like KID, though it's not one of their best.

smiley
User IP Logged

WinstonWolf
Lord/Lady of Lords
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 503
thumbdown Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #16 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 09:15am »

I'm not surprised Abacab is a divisive album, because even for them it's pretty experimental, and often experiments don't always go the way one might want.

I like Abacab for several reasons, mostly because of the variety. It has the big "wall of sound" kinds of songs mixed in with some of the most stripped-down arrangements they ever did. This was their first attempt at recording as they were writing, which allowed them to create a lot of shorter songs that might otherwise gotten jammed together into longer pieces the more they rehearsed them.

I think the speed they were working at shows mostly in the lyrics, because while I think the music is uniformly great some tracks got some really first-draft words. While I think Keep It Dark is another one of their great story songs, and Me and Sarah Jane is typical Tony, Another Record is bogged down by some really banal lyrics and Man on the Corner is probably a little too on the nose and lacking any real depth or development.

But for me the album really stands out as being their most straight-ahead "rock" album and the energy makes Abacab a fun listen, if not as satisfyingly deep as it could have been.
User IP Logged

Phil Collins: 9/90 - Chapel Hill
6/94 - Raleigh
9/04 - Washington DC
Peter Gabriel: 6/03 - Washington DC
Genesis: 9/07 - Washington DC
Musical Box: 11/11 - Philadelphia
7/14 - Asheville
Steve Hackett 10/13 - Philadelphia
11/14 - Philadelphia
NoSonOfVine
Lord/Lady of Lords
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 14130
thumbdown Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #17 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 12:50pm »

on Mar 15th, 2017, 09:15am, WinstonWolf wrote:
Another Record is bogged down by some really banal lyrics and Man on the Corner is probably a little too on the nose and lacking any real depth or development.

And as for LION, that's another song that I just cannot enjoy. It just sounds awkward and clumsy, and the lyrics are lousy. That "Everything I haaaaad!" lyric certainly doesn't help.

On the other hand, I love YMR, and yet it was relegated to an EP. The other two tracks on that EP are also superior to most of the album IMHO. Naminanu and Submarine, two very decent tracks, were also left off.
User IP Logged

rael1974
Lord/Lady of Lords
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

"They call me the trail blazer-Rael-electric razor."


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 613
xx Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #18 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 12:59pm »

on Mar 15th, 2017, 05:30am, NoSonOfVine wrote:
Do you feel that my opinion is not worth sharing? I swear that I am in no way trying to seek attention here. This truly is how I feel about the album now. There comes a time when I have to get an opinion off my chest. For years I'd always seen Abacab is a disappointing album, but it's never been able to grow on me.

If you or anyone else here really likes the album, I have nothing against that. If you don't understand why I now consider it their worst, think of it this way: You have two meals in front of you. One is a chicken and vegetable soup. The other is a plate of varying foods that don't contemplate each other (some foods on it or tasty, others are bland, some outright bad). You can only eat one, and you must eat all of the meal. So which would I pick? The chicken and vegetable soup. Because although it's a boring meal all the way through, it would be easier for me to digest it than a plate full of mixed food types. That's the problem with Abacab to me - it's too mixed up, it's all over the place.


I think he was just being sarcastic. After all, it's HENRY that we're talking about.
User IP Logged

User Image
Fabrizio
Lord/Lady of Lords
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

Can you tell me where my country lies?


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 3096
xx Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #19 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 2:54pm »

on Mar 15th, 2017, 12:50pm, NoSonOfVine wrote:
And as for LION, that's another song that I just cannot enjoy. It just sounds awkward and clumsy, and the lyrics are lousy. That "Everything I haaaaad!" lyric certainly doesn't help.

It should have been on a record I had the misfortune to buy; Acting very strange, so sappy it would have been a perfect fit.
User IP Logged

Kerry95
Lord/Lady of Lords
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 668
thumbdown Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #20 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 3:37pm »

i have a good opinion about 'abacab', maybe because i always listen to my own extended version of it, with the five outtakes added at the end. songs such as you might recall and paperlate raise the average mark. the album 'abacab' just as it was released, with no outtakes, seems incomplete to me.
« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2017, 3:37pm by Kerry95 » User IP Logged

Dr. John
Lord/Lady of Lords
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 664
xx Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #21 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 4:06pm »

on Mar 15th, 2017, 05:30am, NoSonOfVine wrote:
That's the problem with Abacab to me - it's too mixed up, it's all over the place.


I disagree on this point. I find Abacab pretty unified in its sound and style. Many of the songs focus more on groove and feel (title track, Keep It Dark, No Reply at All, main section of Dodo, Whodunnit) rather than chord progressions (probably because there was more focus on jamming). Although various older songs had grooves or sections based on grooves, they have never had a album so dominated by grooves.

There is also the focus on a more simple soundscape. Gone for the most part are the rich, orchestral textures that dominated up to ATTW3 and were still present for parts of Duke. Random snippets sound more like new wave than prog.

So I find the album pretty cohesive. I think it is a bit light in the lyrics department. I really like about half the tracks and tolerate the rest.
User IP Logged

snowdog
Eleventh Earl of Mar
ImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

My hopes are as the leaves upon the water.


Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 233
thumbdown Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #22 on: Mar 16th, 2017, 06:45am »

As you've all probably guessed by now, I'm a huge fan of Abacab. To me, it's a slightly flawed gem of an album. Yes, the last few minutes of the title track seem to wander around lost before finally ending in a slow fade. They should have brought the song to a proper close as they did on 3SL, where all the improvising suddenly regains focus and nails the landing at the end. And yes, some of outtakes were more solid than some of tracks that made the album, Paperlate and YMR in particular.

But that's the end of my criticism, as I enjoy every track on the album for what it is, even the dreaded track-which-shall-not-be-named. The fun and energy on display from the band more than make up for a couple weaker songs and some intentionally abstract lyrics. I agree that it's really the band's only straight rock album, except for maybe the Genesis album... (and maybe CAS?). IT and WCD land more squarely in the pop category, not that I dislike them entirely.

And yes, I even think Another Record is a great way to end the album, with its bluesy faux harmonica and entreaty to put another record on. To sum it up, Abacab is great, fun rock album from a superbly talented prog/rock/pop band. Besides, deep down, "You know you like it." grin
User IP Logged

Maybe when you're older and you're thinking back, you might recall.
foxfeeder
Watcher of the Skies
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

I'm an all-eras fan. Of Steve Hackett!


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 5022
thumbdown Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #23 on: Mar 16th, 2017, 07:58am »

Is it just me who thinks, lyrically, that Keep It Dark harks back to the track, A Trick of the Tail?
User IP Logged

Ian

Blasting, billowing, bursting forth, With the power of ten billion butterfly sneezes
Fabrizio
Lord/Lady of Lords
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

Can you tell me where my country lies?


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 3096
xx Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #24 on: Mar 16th, 2017, 08:03am »

on Mar 16th, 2017, 06:45am, snowdog wrote:
Besides, deep down, "You know you like it." grin

I'll admit and concede that I am more likely to listen to Abacab than IT, which is a lean mean, glossy, well oiled, relentless hits machine, where almost every song is 'perfect' and suits the purpose.
Abacab certaily retains a certain charm which goes beyond the merits of the material per se and the energy IS infectious. Still the material is too 'thin' and I would agree with the original sentiment of the thread that it is one of their weakest releases. We can debate over the reasons but imo it pales when compared to the first side of the Mama album. I think in dropping old habits, they were a bit lost and they seemed to be sure about what the didn't want, not so much about what they wanted or how to achieve it and it would be understandable.
User IP Logged

WinstonWolf
Lord/Lady of Lords
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 503
xx Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #25 on: Mar 16th, 2017, 09:33am »

on Mar 16th, 2017, 08:03am, Fabrizio wrote:
I think in dropping old habits, they were a bit lost and they seemed to be sure about what the didn't want, not so much about what they wanted or how to achieve it and it would be understandable.


I agree, and their later feelings about the album seem to back that up. Abacab was important because it really opened up their ability to write and record on their own terms and own time, but you can tell they were still working things out.

Genesis is certainly more polished, and they adapted to their new writing/recording style quite quickly, because IT and WCD seemed even more confident and effortless for them to make.

But sadly Abacab was the last album they made that really had any kind of a raw edge to it. Which is why I tend to prefer live versions of their later material.
User IP Logged

Phil Collins: 9/90 - Chapel Hill
6/94 - Raleigh
9/04 - Washington DC
Peter Gabriel: 6/03 - Washington DC
Genesis: 9/07 - Washington DC
Musical Box: 11/11 - Philadelphia
7/14 - Asheville
Steve Hackett 10/13 - Philadelphia
11/14 - Philadelphia
Fabrizio
Lord/Lady of Lords
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

Can you tell me where my country lies?


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 3096
xx Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #26 on: Mar 16th, 2017, 10:02am »

on Mar 16th, 2017, 09:33am, WinstonWolf wrote:
Genesis is certainly more polished, and they adapted to their new writing/recording style quite quickly, because IT and WCD seemed even more confident and effortless for them to make.

But sadly Abacab was the last album they made that really had any kind of a raw edge to it. Which is why I tend to prefer live versions of their later material.

Actually, while I agree that Genesis was more polished, I still hear a lot of edge in it. I remember hearing Mama and HBTS and thinking that they had found the way to remain relevant and still retain their essence as a band.
There is also another aspect which perhaps has some sort of weight; between 1980 and 1983 they were pushing real hard, capitalizing on the momentum. Phil became a star and just like Tony and Mike released two solo albums, they released Duke, Abacab, Genesis and 3SL....A lot, it is also possible that they were a bit dry of ideas.
« Last Edit: Mar 16th, 2017, 10:08am by Fabrizio » User IP Logged

rael1974
Lord/Lady of Lords
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

"They call me the trail blazer-Rael-electric razor."


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 613
xx Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #27 on: Mar 16th, 2017, 1:57pm »

on Mar 16th, 2017, 07:58am, foxfeeder wrote:
Is it just me who thinks, lyrically, that Keep It Dark harks back to the track, A Trick of the Tail?


How so?
User IP Logged

User Image
NoSonOfVine
Lord/Lady of Lords
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 14130
xx Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #28 on: Mar 16th, 2017, 4:58pm »

on Mar 16th, 2017, 1:57pm, rael1974 wrote:
How so?

A character tells others of a magical world. They disbelieve him.

KID is a decent track, but I certainly wouldn't say it's "fabulous" as Dougal described it. I much prefer ATOTT to it.
User IP Logged

rael1974
Lord/Lady of Lords
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

"They call me the trail blazer-Rael-electric razor."


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 613
xx Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #29 on: Mar 16th, 2017, 7:26pm »

on Mar 16th, 2017, 4:58pm, NoSonOfVine wrote:
A character tells others of a magical world. They disbelieve him.


Ah yes, that's right. The only difference is whether the creatures of subject are terrestrial or not.
User IP Logged

User Image
Pages: 1 2 3 4  ...  6 Notify Send Topic Print
« Previous Topic | Next Topic »

Donate $6.99 for 50,000 Ad-Free Pageviews!

| |

This forum powered for FREE by Conforums ©
Sign up for your own Free Message Board today!
Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | Conforums Support | Parental Controls