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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Sorry, Abacab. :(  (Read 4151 times)
NoSonOfVine
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thumbdown Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Thread started on: Mar 14th, 2017, 9:09pm »

I'm just going to have to say it. In my honest opinion, Genesis's worst album is not FGTR - it's Abacab.

Now, this sudden change of opinion might sound strange, if not ridiculous, at first. "Really? Abacab? But... it's not that bad, right? How can it possibly be worse than FGTR?"

Allow me to explain.

FGTR, to me, can be forgiven. It was their first album. Their first attempt at recorded music. And although it doesn't succeed, I'm starting to really like parts of it. I can appreciate the attempt at making it and specific bits of it have an eerie, wise, elderly tone. It's mostly forgettable to the point where most of it will never fully sink in, but this just makes the album all the more fascinating to me. It's a dark, mystical and intriguing antique.

Abacab, on the other hand, is bad for far worse reasons. I'm sorry, but I can't hold this opinion back any longer: It's a complete mess. It may have a few good songs, but even those good songs have underwhelming moments to me. My favourite track on the album is the title track, and even that song's instrumental ending isn't that great. The rest of the album is mostly mediocre and at times, entirely lacking in flavour and energy. And of course, the album is home to the band's biggest stinker. But even then, subtracting this one song doesn't significantly improve the album. The whole thing feels like it was slapped together, much like the colours of the album cover. It's inconsistent and it never truly gets itself going, and it doesn't even end well. It's just an overall highly unrewarding experience for me, and sticks out in their discography like a sore, multicoloured thumb.

Sorry to any Abacab fans but I wanted to get this off by chest after all these years. I've always been very critical of the album, but at the same time I kept trying to defend it in my head. I can no longer do so. It's a cold, ugly album. One that, quite frankly, I don't think I ever need to listen to again. Its three best songs are all on Three Sides Live and are amongst other great songs, and I'd much rather listen to that album any day of the week.
« Last Edit: Mar 14th, 2017, 9:14pm by NoSonOfVine » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #1 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 12:31am »

on Mar 14th, 2017, 9:09pm, NoSonOfVine wrote:
I'm just going to have to say it. In my honest opinion, Genesis's worst album is not FGTR - it's Abacab.

Now, this sudden change of opinion might sound strange, if not ridiculous, at first. "Really? Abacab? But... it's not that bad, right? How can it possibly be worse than FGTR?"

Allow me to explain.

FGTR, to me, can be forgiven. It was their first album. Their first attempt at recorded music. And although it doesn't succeed, I'm starting to really like parts of it. I can appreciate the attempt at making it and specific bits of it have an eerie, wise, elderly tone. It's mostly forgettable to the point where most of it will never fully sink in, but this just makes the album all the more fascinating to me. It's a dark, mystical and intriguing antique.

Abacab, on the other hand, is bad for far worse reasons. I'm sorry, but I can't hold this opinion back any longer: It's a complete mess. It may have a few good songs, but even those good songs have underwhelming moments to me. My favourite track on the album is the title track, and even that song's instrumental ending isn't that great. The rest of the album is mostly mediocre and at times, entirely lacking in flavour and energy. And of course, the album is home to the band's biggest stinker. But even then, subtracting this one song doesn't significantly improve the album. The whole thing feels like it was slapped together, much like the colours of the album cover. It's inconsistent and it never truly gets itself going, and it doesn't even end well. It's just an overall highly unrewarding experience for me, and sticks out in their discography like a sore, multicoloured thumb.

Sorry to any Abacab fans but I wanted to get this off by chest after all these years. I've always been very critical of the album, but at the same time I kept trying to defend it in my head. I can no longer do so. It's a cold, ugly album. One that, quite frankly, I don't think I ever need to listen to again. Its three best songs are all on Three Sides Live and are amongst other great songs, and I'd much rather listen to that album any day of the week.


Interesting opinion. Personally I like the album a lot, but I do see a few issues with it:

1. "Who Dunnit?" sucks. It shouldn't have been recorded, let alone put on the album (no offense to those who like the song).

2. "No Reply At All" feels out of place on the album due to the horns. I would have released it as a non-album single. "You Might Recall" would have worked better.

3. The album is often times described as having an abstract and minimalist sound to it. Although I agree with this for the most part, "No Reply At All", "Me And Sara Jane", and "Like It Or Not" don't always fit these descriptions to my ears. At least parts on these songs have a fuller sound and a romanticism to them, unlike the other songs. "Like It Or Not" could work as a song on Duke if you ask me.
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thumbdown Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #2 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 01:03am »

Evaluation...

NoSon is either:

A: Extremely bored.
B: Running low on medication.
C: Desparately seeking attention.
D: All of the above.

grin
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xx Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #3 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 01:15am »

on Mar 15th, 2017, 01:03am, HENRY wrote:
Evaluation...

NoSon is either:

A: Extremely bored.
B: Running low on medication.
C: Desparately seeking attention.
D: All of the above.

grin


D.


Seriously I would take Abacab over FGTR any day. Even better than IT IMHO...
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« Reply #4 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 04:48am »

'Keep It Dark' is a fabulous piece of music.
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xx Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #5 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 04:55am »

on Mar 14th, 2017, 9:09pm, NoSonOfVine wrote:
I'm just going to have to say it. In my honest opinion, Genesis's worst album is not FGTR - it's Abacab.

Now, this sudden change of opinion might sound strange, if not ridiculous, at first. "Really? Abacab? But... it's not that bad, right? How can it possibly be worse than FGTR?"

Allow me to explain.

FGTR, to me, can be forgiven. It was their first album. Their first attempt at recorded music. And although it doesn't succeed, I'm starting to really like parts of it. I can appreciate the attempt at making it and specific bits of it have an eerie, wise, elderly tone. It's mostly forgettable to the point where most of it will never fully sink in, but this just makes the album all the more fascinating to me. It's a dark, mystical and intriguing antique.

Abacab, on the other hand, is bad for far worse reasons. I'm sorry, but I can't hold this opinion back any longer: It's a complete mess. It may have a few good songs, but even those good songs have underwhelming moments to me. My favourite track on the album is the title track, and even that song's instrumental ending isn't that great. The rest of the album is mostly mediocre and at times, entirely lacking in flavour and energy. And of course, the album is home to the band's biggest stinker. But even then, subtracting this one song doesn't significantly improve the album. The whole thing feels like it was slapped together, much like the colours of the album cover. It's inconsistent and it never truly gets itself going, and it doesn't even end well. It's just an overall highly unrewarding experience for me, and sticks out in their discography like a sore, multicoloured thumb.

Sorry to any Abacab fans but I wanted to get this off by chest after all these years. I've always been very critical of the album, but at the same time I kept trying to defend it in my head. I can no longer do so. It's a cold, ugly album. One that, quite frankly, I don't think I ever need to listen to again. Its three best songs are all on Three Sides Live and are amongst other great songs, and I'd much rather listen to that album any day of the week.


I've got a quick solution for you: don't listen to it.
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« Reply #6 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 04:58am »

Abacab is a really great album. Not only, because it includes some really great tracks, some of which have become Genesis classics by full right, but also, because it directed the band into a new direction soundwise. This is mainly the merit of producer Hugh Padgham, but also caused by a different approach of the band to writing and recording music.

I love almost every song on the album, and even the songs, that didn`t make it on the album are a real treat.

For me, Abacab is really an outstanding effort of the band.
« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2017, 04:59am by slowdancer » User IP Logged

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« Reply #7 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 05:30am »

on Mar 15th, 2017, 01:03am, HENRY wrote:
Evaluation...

NoSon is either:

A: Extremely bored.
B: Running low on medication.
C: Desparately seeking attention.
D: All of the above.

grin

Do you feel that my opinion is not worth sharing? I swear that I am in no way trying to seek attention here. This truly is how I feel about the album now. There comes a time when I have to get an opinion off my chest. For years I'd always seen Abacab is a disappointing album, but it's never been able to grow on me.

If you or anyone else here really likes the album, I have nothing against that. If you don't understand why I now consider it their worst, think of it this way: You have two meals in front of you. One is a chicken and vegetable soup. The other is a plate of varying foods that don't contemplate each other (some foods on it are tasty, others are bland, some outright bad). You can only eat one, and you must eat all of the meal. So which would I pick? The chicken and vegetable soup. Because although it's a boring meal all the way through, it would be easier for me to digest it than a plate full of mixed food types. That's the problem with Abacab to me - it's too mixed up, it's all over the place.
« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2017, 8:36pm by NoSonOfVine » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Sorry, Abacab. :(
« Reply #8 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 06:31am »

on Mar 14th, 2017, 9:09pm, NoSonOfVine wrote:
I'm just going to have to say it. In my honest opinion, Genesis's worst album is not FGTR - it's Abacab.

Now, this sudden change of opinion might sound strange, if not ridiculous, at first. "Really? Abacab? But... it's not that bad, right? How can it possibly be worse than FGTR?"

Allow me to explain.

FGTR, to me, can be forgiven. It was their first album. Their first attempt at recorded music. And although it doesn't succeed, I'm starting to really like parts of it. I can appreciate the attempt at making it and specific bits of it have an eerie, wise, elderly tone. It's mostly forgettable to the point where most of it will never fully sink in, but this just makes the album all the more fascinating to me. It's a dark, mystical and intriguing antique.

Abacab, on the other hand, is bad for far worse reasons. I'm sorry, but I can't hold this opinion back any longer: It's a complete mess. It may have a few good songs, but even those good songs have underwhelming moments to me. My favourite track on the album is the title track, and even that song's instrumental ending isn't that great. The rest of the album is mostly mediocre and at times, entirely lacking in flavour and energy. And of course, the album is home to the band's biggest stinker. But even then, subtracting this one song doesn't significantly improve the album. The whole thing feels like it was slapped together, much like the colours of the album cover. It's inconsistent and it never truly gets itself going, and it doesn't even end well. It's just an overall highly unrewarding experience for me, and sticks out in their discography like a sore, multicoloured thumb.

Sorry to any Abacab fans but I wanted to get this off by chest after all these years. I've always been very critical of the album, but at the same time I kept trying to defend it in my head. I can no longer do so. It's a cold, ugly album. One that, quite frankly, I don't think I ever need to listen to again. Its three best songs are all on Three Sides Live and are amongst other great songs, and I'd much rather listen to that album any day of the week.


Generally I view albums by how much I can play the whole thing and enjoy it... I agree on your comments NSOV about Abacab and rate this pretty average as there are quite a few tracks I want to ignore.... FGTR on the other hand was an album I grew up with during the mid 70s and although it does not have that Genesis feel to it, I love the album a lot!... Definitely not the worst from Genesis!.... I suppose it's the era you were born in and what you listened to growing up!.... smiley
« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2017, 06:32am by Noni » User IP Logged

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« Reply #9 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 06:58am »

On the one hand, I really have nothing against ABACAB. I quite enjoy most of it, even "Who Dunnit?" (To me, "Another Record" is the real stinker.)

On the other hand, I do consider it a bit of a step down from most of what came before it. I feel like Genesis, though still quite good, was never quite the same from ABACAB on.

I also think that a better album than the actual ABACAB could have been assembled from the available material. I don't feel quite the same about any other Genesis album.
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« Reply #10 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 06:59am »

on Mar 15th, 2017, 04:55am, peterpyser wrote:
I've got a quick solution for you: don't listen to it.

I won't. That doesn't mean we can't discuss it. smiley

By the way, in response to Dougal, I quite like KID, though it's not one of their best.

I might sound like I'm being overly harsh on the album, but trust me, I would love to enjoy this album, and yes it has its moments, but for me they are few and far between. undecided
« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2017, 12:30pm by NoSonOfVine » User IP Logged

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« Reply #11 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 07:37am »

I must say, Abacab was a major disapointment to me when it was released and subsequently I have never particularly warmed to it, although I find it more bearable than I used to. I think it could have been improved if some of the non-album tracks such as Paperlate / Submarine / Naminanu / Me & Virgil had been included in lieu of horrible things such as 'Who Dunnit' which taint the album (after all these years I still find it hard to believe they thought it was a good idea to put that on there!).
However I would rate this above WCD, which is the absolute nadir IMHO.
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« Reply #12 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 08:14am »

on Mar 15th, 2017, 04:58am, slowdancer wrote:
Abacab is a really great album. Not only, because it includes some really great tracks, some of which have become Genesis classics by full right.

Such as? There are some songs I might enjoy listening to but I would really struggle to define them as classics. That's an album that has been dropped by the band altogether and left no trace on radios. It is a very important one, that is undisputable but I always thought it was quite weak in terms of material.
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« Reply #13 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 08:23am »

on Mar 15th, 2017, 08:14am, Fabrizio wrote:
Such as?


Abacab
Dodo/Lurker
Me And Sarah Jane

non album tracks: Paperlate and You Might Recall (one of my all time favourite Genesis tracks).
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« Reply #14 on: Mar 15th, 2017, 09:08am »

on Mar 15th, 2017, 08:23am, slowdancer wrote:
Abacab
Dodo/Lurker
Me And Sarah Jane

non album tracks: Paperlate and You Might Recall (one of my all time favourite Genesis tracks).


Again, though I like some of those: Dodo/Lurker
Me And Sarah Jane and You might recall, I really don't think these are songs the band will be remembered by. We probably have diffferent definitions of 'classics' but I feel it should go beyond personal taste. The general public doesn't remember those songs, you can still hear Invisible Touch, Into deep, No son of mine or I can't dance on the radio, on occasions even Mama or TTT. Abacab is gone and forgotten, commercially speaking it is hardly a classic, as for Genesis fans tha camp is highly divided at least, as for the band, the only song with a minimal chance to be reprised during their last tour was Abacab, it was a single and it is a quintessential live number,not a good one imo but still. They couldn't be bothered. It doesn't matter how I feel for instance about Invisible Touch, the song, I fully realize that you can't have a final tour without playing it. Rightly or wrong it is revered by many fans, it was a huge hit, it's a classic.
« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2017, 09:09am by Fabrizio » User IP Logged

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