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Topic: sMALLCREEP'S DAY 5.1 SURROUND REMASTER (Read 4985 times) |
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msj1965
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sMALLCREEP'S DAY 5.1 SURROUND REMASTER
« Thread started on: Oct 14th, 2010, 10:14am » |
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I contacted Mike's website RE Smallcreep's day, and was advised to get active in this forum. I have to say in my opinion, it is the best of all the Solo albums, it is on Par with Steve's Voyage of the Acolyte, Please don't touch, spectral mornings and Defector. I really really hope that this gets the same treatment as The Genesis collection, and a Curious feeling. This is just an astounding album. Predictably the whole side should be the best, but as I have got older I find Romani and Every Road are easily the best tracks on this record. Compression (B side to working in line single, and riff lurking from selling England days) should also be included along with videos for working in line, time again and overnight Job (if they were made) I urge all people who care about this record to make a noise about it and get it released in REMASTERED 5.1 SURROUND SOUND
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NedFlanders
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Re: sMALLCREEP'S DAY 5.1 SURROUND REMASTER
« Reply #1 on: Oct 15th, 2010, 06:33am » |
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on Oct 14th, 2010, 10:14am, msj1965 wrote:| I contacted Mike's website RE Smallcreep's day, and was advised to get active in this forum. I have to say in my opinion, it is the best of all the Solo albums, it is on Par with Steve's Voyage of the Acolyte, Please don't touch, spectral mornings and Defector. I really really hope that this gets the same treatment as The Genesis collection, and a Curious feeling. This is just an astounding album. Predictably the whole side should be the best, but as I have got older I find Romani and Every Road are easily the best tracks on this record. Compression (B side to working in line single, and riff lurking from selling England days) should also be included along with videos for working in line, time again and overnight Job (if they were made) I urge all people who care about this record to make a noise about it and get it released in REMASTERED 5.1 SURROUND SOUND |
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I would love to have this album remastered and in 5.1 but it will be up to Mike to decide if he wants to finance this. I feel that the time is right to have this album remastered bearing in mind all the Genesis back cataloge and most of the classic solo stuff from Genesis members has been done - Hackett's first 4 albums, the first 5-6 albums from Peter and Tony's debut. Surprised Phil has not decided to do this with Face Value.
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anothertimelapse
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Re: sMALLCREEP'S DAY 5.1 SURROUND REMASTER
« Reply #2 on: Oct 15th, 2010, 3:25pm » |
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Quote:| urprised Phil has not decided to do this with Face Value. |
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Allen Sides
did 5.1 of PC's first four albums around the time of Testify.
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sistermoon
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Re: sMALLCREEP'S DAY 5.1 SURROUND REMASTER
« Reply #3 on: Oct 16th, 2010, 08:03am » |
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Allen Sides - great name! 
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NedFlanders
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Re: sMALLCREEP'S DAY 5.1 SURROUND REMASTER
« Reply #4 on: Oct 17th, 2010, 05:54am » |
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on Oct 15th, 2010, 3:25pm, anothertimelapse wrote:Allen Sides
did 5.1 of PC's first four albums around the time of Testify. |
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Really? So why did they not come onto the market?
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anothertimelapse
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Re: sMALLCREEP'S DAY 5.1 SURROUND REMASTER
« Reply #5 on: Oct 17th, 2010, 06:14am » |
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Quote:Really? So why did they not come onto the market?
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Yes, really. As to why no release - I dunno.
The only thing from the 5.1 work that has seen the light of day apparently is the version of One More Night on Love Songs is a stereo fold-down of the new 5.1 track.
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millsy2010
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Re: sMALLCREEP'S DAY 5.1 SURROUND REMASTER
« Reply #6 on: Oct 21st, 2010, 10:55am » |
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*like*
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My music at Myspace
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RisingSun
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Re: sMALLCREEP'S DAY 5.1 SURROUND REMASTER
« Reply #7 on: Oct 22nd, 2010, 5:09pm » |
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on Oct 15th, 2010, 06:33am, NedFlanders wrote:| I would love to have this album remastered and in 5.1 but it will be up to Mike to decide if he wants to finance this. |
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Does anyone have even the roughest idea of what kind of money is involved in getting to a 5.1 surround mix from the existing master tapes?
If Mike isn't particularly interested, is there any way that outside parties could get involved financially to make it happen - I'm definitely in (in a major way).
Cheers,
RS
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santibanks
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Re: sMALLCREEP'S DAY 5.1 SURROUND REMASTER
« Reply #8 on: Oct 23rd, 2010, 09:16am » |
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on Oct 22nd, 2010, 5:09pm, RisingSun wrote:Does anyone have even the roughest idea of what kind of money is involved in getting to a 5.1 surround mix from the existing master tapes?
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To give you a small idea:
The first determination to be made is how the album was recorded. Was it multitracked on analogue tape and if so, what format? Or was it recorded digitally? (I dont know this album but I know that Genesis started recording digital too from Invisible Touch on, with WCD being recorded totally in the digital domain)
It might be mike himself who might look this up (I guess he has easy access to the master tapes, or anyone at the farm. I don't think this will cost "anything")
Then someone has to find a studio which could transfer these tapes and has the right equipment for the particular used format. It's not uncommon for tapes to be in bad condition after years of storage. This means they need to be repaired and prepared first (a process called "baking").
These guys can do it:
http://www.fxgroup.net/Copyroom
But it's possible that this could be done at the farm itself too.
Here are the prices for the farm:
http://www.miloco.co.uk/studios/fisherlane_rates.php
Don't think this job is done in a day. It might take several days to a week to transfer the tapes to the digital domain. So if we take the 5 day rate, we pay 5*700=3500 GBP…
Now we got the mastertracks all digital. Next step is to mix these songs. Depending on the quality of the recorded tracks, the experience of the man behind the knobs and the number of songs and the number of tracks/channels per song this can take any time between a week and months…
Practically, if we take that 5 day rate and we take a 15 day mixing session (just for easy calculating) then it would be 15*700=10500 GBP. (Subtotal is already 14000).
After a very intensive mixing session the stuff needs to be mastered. Mastering studio's don't come cheap. Prices depend on the format it needs to be mastered for. If we take DVD-Audio as our medium, we will have at least 2 surround mixes and a stereo mix (1 Dolby/DTS mix and 1 MLP mix) which means that there are 3 mixes to master. Mastering is usually done in a couple of days, but not all facilities are good for mastering (you want someone with real experience and credit, not a cheap kid who thinks he can master by just putting a compressor on it and normalise the tracks on his home pc…).
Some studios calculate a price per song , others calculate hourly or daily rates. This can be anything. But as its surround, it's more pricey (Abbey Road offers a song for 90 GBP, but thats stereo and by "upload" system)
I think that 8000 GBP would be on the cheap side…
Then we need to make discs. It is possible to make this at home and then offer disc images for download. Other option would be to compress the surround mixes to AC3 or DTS Wav (or other formats) but that makes it more difficult for the end-user. Costs for this are variable. Depending on the options wanted…
So all in all we have 8.000+14.000=22.000 GBP
Of course this is not a definitive answer and it could be cheaper. But I think this is a realistic price.
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msj1965
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Re: sMALLCREEP'S DAY 5.1 SURROUND REMASTER
« Reply #9 on: Oct 24th, 2010, 08:17am » |
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on Oct 22nd, 2010, 5:09pm, RisingSun wrote:Does anyone have even the roughest idea of what kind of money is involved in getting to a 5.1 surround mix from the existing master tapes?
If Mike isn't particularly interested, is there any way that outside parties could get involved financially to make it happen - I'm definitely in (in a major way).
Cheers,
RS |
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I like your'e thinking, I'd be up for that, bit like Marillion releases these days, pre pay for something
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RisingSun
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Re: sMALLCREEP'S DAY 5.1 SURROUND REMASTER
« Reply #10 on: Oct 25th, 2010, 03:39am » |
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Thanks, santibanks, for going to the trouble of setting it out so clearly - very interesting.
I guess there is a kind of template for Smallcreep in so far as Nick Davis has done the great surround remix of 'A Curious Feeling' which was the same era and same producer.
I wonder whether the ACF project cost was anywhere close to your £22k estimate and whether it turned out to be a financial success or not?
Maybe wishful thinking on my part but I guess a Smallcreep re-issue would sell more than ACF? Does anybody have contacts at Esoteric?
Cheers,
RS
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santibanks
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Re: sMALLCREEP'S DAY 5.1 SURROUND REMASTER
« Reply #11 on: Oct 26th, 2010, 07:53am » |
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on Oct 25th, 2010, 03:39am, RisingSun wrote:Thanks, santibanks, for going to the trouble of setting it out so clearly - very interesting.
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No problem 
Quote:I guess there is a kind of template for Smallcreep in so far as Nick Davis has done the great surround remix of 'A Curious Feeling' which was the same era and same producer.
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In music, there is no such thing as "a template". What I mean with that is that every thing has to be started from scratch and what worked for album A does not perse work for album B too… The only "template" could be various mixing ideas for the tracks on the album. For example, if the drums are all the same and the sound needs to be the same on all the tracks, then setting a rough template for all the drumtracks might be a time saver (and with tools like Apple Logic, it's easy to just save and load channelstrip settings).
But generally speaking, a real template is not possible and also not the thing you want. Surround makes such a concept even harder as you have a much larger soundfield.
Quote:I wonder whether the ACF project cost was anywhere close to your £22k estimate and whether it turned out to be a financial success or not?
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Well I have no clue about this. Of course my calculation is just a rough guide. Contract negotiations (for example record companies having contracts with studios and mastering suites where they agree that all albums for this company are recorded at studio X and mastered at suite Y), easier access to resources (I guess that phil, mike and tony have easier access to the facilities of The Farm then for example any other musician, which can significantly cut prices) and choice of companies to work with are not included. As I said before, there are a lot of variables to take into account. It was just a rough concept to give an indication what it would cost without any help or contacts. I remember an interview with Steven Wilson from Porcupine Tree where he actually discusses the cost of manufacturing the DVD-a discs of porcupine tree. But I can't find it anywhere…
Quote:Maybe wishful thinking on my part but I guess a Smallcreep re-issue would sell more than ACF? Does anybody have contacts at Esoteric?
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I have no idea. Im not familiar/interested with mikes stuff that well. I only have rewired here. I care more for the solo works of Gabriel, Collins and Banks.
In case you have access to the multitracks and have them all digital, I'd be happy to mix them for you
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demolition man
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Re: sMALLCREEP'S DAY 5.1 SURROUND REMASTER
« Reply #12 on: Oct 31st, 2010, 12:44pm » |
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22k seems like a snip to me.  
I mean, that's a small amount of money to pay to give the fans what they want. Everything is about profit these days but maybe not in this case, maybe there's another reason? Maybe some royalties as well to consider? But in any case surely the money doesn't matter so much 
Anyway I hope it sees the light of day because the music is great, timeless magic deserving of such a project.
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Mal
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Re: sMALLCREEP'S DAY 5.1 SURROUND REMASTER
« Reply #13 on: Oct 31st, 2010, 4:27pm » |
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Its been a long, long time since I heard this album. Got it on vinyl somewhere, but no way of playing it these days 
Time to hunt a cd down methinks
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santibanks
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Re: sMALLCREEP'S DAY 5.1 SURROUND REMASTER
« Reply #14 on: Nov 2nd, 2010, 06:50am » |
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on Oct 31st, 2010, 12:44pm, demolition man wrote:22k seems like a snip to me.
I mean, that's a small amount of money to pay to give the fans what they want. Everything is about profit these days but maybe not in this case, maybe there's another reason? |
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I'll PM you my bank account number 
No seriously I agree about the profit part. But unless someone is willing to invest and actually lose money with it, you need to have at least break even And I'm not sure how well this would sell.
If we take an amount like 11/12/13 euros for a dvd-a, then you need at least 2000 sold copies to break even (calculated from the calculation above which only covers the mixing and mastering, not the pressing, artwork, distribution)
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