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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Trump protests  (Read 1809 times)
Shipwrecked
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xx Re: Trump protests
« Reply #15 on: Nov 17th, 2016, 05:42am »

on Nov 16th, 2016, 10:02pm, HENRY wrote:
How so? Do you disagree specifically with what I said, or do you have a different interpretation of that reality?


I completely disagree. See the other thread for my reasoning.

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angry Re: Trump protests
« Reply #16 on: Nov 17th, 2016, 07:29am »

on Nov 16th, 2016, 12:55pm, HENRY wrote:
Yeah...screw freedom of speech, they should just shut the hell up... rolleyes


Don't mind them speaking (though it seems pointless, given he won the election under the existing rules, but that seems to be the issue some people, let's call them losers, have these days, they can't accept the result if it isn't what THEY want), but violence, vandalism etc? Not acceptable at all.
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xx Re: Trump protests
« Reply #17 on: Nov 17th, 2016, 4:23pm »

on Nov 16th, 2016, 10:02pm, HENRY wrote:
How so? Do you disagree specifically with what I said, or do you have a different interpretation of that reality?


I think what Shipwrecked meant to say is that calling Trump a racist and what not has not affected him, and in fact it has helped him. A lot of dumb idiots are actually proud of being racist and bigoted, etc. By saying things like that, which are true, we are helping him by again proving he is "unestablishment" "un-PC" (no pun intended) and all the crap some people just love.

But on side note, I think this election is proof that simply calling people things, very negative claims, has no effect on them.

« Last Edit: Nov 17th, 2016, 4:26pm by FatOldLady » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Trump protests
« Reply #18 on: Nov 18th, 2016, 02:48am »

on Nov 17th, 2016, 05:42am, Shipwrecked wrote:
I completely disagree. See the other thread for my reasoning.

I'd prefer if you would directly address my question.
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xx Re: Trump protests
« Reply #19 on: Nov 18th, 2016, 03:07am »

on Nov 17th, 2016, 07:29am, foxfeeder wrote:
Don't mind them speaking (though it seems pointless, given he won the election under the existing rules, but that seems to be the issue some people, let's call them losers, have these days, they can't accept the result if it isn't what THEY want), but violence, vandalism etc? Not acceptable at all.

Incorrect.

There is a large and distinct response directed mainly at the elected candidate's established distorted and misinformed rhetoric against minorities, the opposing candidate, and governance in general. And no one condones the acts of a small fraction of protesters who act irresponsibly.

When one factors in the fact that most voters, by popular vote, chose the other candidate, there is very little to argue against those who choose to have a say regarding the outcome of this election.
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xx Re: Trump protests
« Reply #20 on: Nov 18th, 2016, 03:18am »

on Nov 17th, 2016, 4:23pm, FatOldLady wrote:
I think what Shipwrecked meant to say is that calling Trump a racist and what not has not affected him, and in fact it has helped him. A lot of dumb idiots are actually proud of being racist and bigoted, etc. By saying things like that, which are true, we are helping him by again proving he is "unestablishment" "un-PC" (no pun intended) and all the crap some people just love.

But on side note, I think this election is proof that simply calling people things, very negative claims, has no effect on them.

So, isn't that enough to generate some kind of reaction in response to the outcome of this election?
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xx Re: Trump protests
« Reply #21 on: Nov 18th, 2016, 06:21am »

on Nov 18th, 2016, 03:18am, HENRY wrote:
So, isn't that enough to generate some kind of reaction in response to the outcome of this election?


Most definitely, but it does still not justify violence.
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xx Re: Trump protests
« Reply #22 on: Nov 18th, 2016, 06:47am »

on Nov 18th, 2016, 06:21am, FatOldLady wrote:
Most definitely, but it does still not justify violence.


Specially the American flag?


« Last Edit: Nov 18th, 2016, 06:48am by Noni » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Trump protests
« Reply #23 on: Nov 18th, 2016, 07:23am »

on Nov 17th, 2016, 4:23pm, FatOldLady wrote:
I think what Shipwrecked meant to say is that calling Trump a racist and what not has not affected him, and in fact it has helped him. A lot of dumb idiots are actually proud of being racist and bigoted, etc.

Speaking as an American, I can say that that's an extremely unrealistic assessment. It sounds like a media caricature and doesn't describe any meaningful number of actual people.

What I've seen is that most people have not been thrilled with Trump, but have been even less thrilled at the prospect of getting more of what they'd been getting for the last 8 years.
« Last Edit: Nov 18th, 2016, 07:30am by onetwothree » User IP Logged

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angry Re: Trump protests
« Reply #24 on: Nov 18th, 2016, 07:24am »

on Nov 18th, 2016, 03:07am, HENRY wrote:
Incorrect.

There is a large and distinct response directed mainly at the elected candidate's established distorted and misinformed rhetoric against minorities, the opposing candidate, and governance in general. And no one condones the acts of a small fraction of protesters who act irresponsibly.

When one factors in the fact that most voters, by popular vote, chose the other candidate, there is very little to argue against those who choose to have a say regarding the outcome of this election.


Well, you are entitles to your opinion, though it is just that.

As I effectively agreed, but as I pointed out, it changes nothing. The election was run under the existing rules, Trump won, and if every voter came out and protested against it, it still stands. They want change? Campaign for electoral reform. It'll be a long campaign, but potentially more effective.
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xx Re: Trump protests
« Reply #25 on: Nov 18th, 2016, 07:33am »

on Nov 18th, 2016, 03:07am, HENRY wrote:
When one factors in the fact that most voters, by popular vote, chose the other candidate, there is very little to argue against those who choose to have a say regarding the outcome of this election.

There are reasons U.S. elections use the Electoral College instead of popular vote. Here's something I heard that kind of sums it up: If the elections were decided by simple popular vote, California and New York alone would determine the outcome and no other state would actually have a voice.
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angry Re: Trump protests
« Reply #26 on: Nov 18th, 2016, 08:14am »

on Nov 18th, 2016, 07:33am, onetwothree wrote:
There are reasons U.S. elections use the Electoral College instead of popular vote. Here's something I heard that kind of sums it up: If the elections were decided by simple popular vote, California and New York alone would determine the outcome and no other state would actually have a voice.

That may well be true, but is it fairer than the principle of one person, one vote?

Trump said he wanted to reform the system. If he really meant it he could propose electoral reform, to take effect from the next election. If Congress blocked it, it wouldn’t be his fault. Of course he’s unlikely to do it now after winning under the current system, but it’s one thing that just might raise some of his opponents’ opinions of him.
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xx Re: Trump protests
« Reply #27 on: Nov 18th, 2016, 09:19am »

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IMO the Electoral College doing exactly what it's designed to do. Checks and balances. Balancing power between rural and metropolitan, states and federalism, the people who produce the food and the people who consume the food. That's why we live in a Republic, where each State is important. We don't live in a democracy, because a democracy is the majority running over the minority. I would like to see term limits, however, and Trump has put that at the top of his list. I don't think it will pass though, but we'll see.

Henry, I wasn't trying to push you off earlier, sorry if I came across that way. My response is that, as mentioned in the last thread, that people who have different views than the far left are often criticized as being "homophobic" or "women haters", etc. That kind of talk has upset a lot of people, and this election was a lot of their voices telling the world they are not like that. Stereotypes are dangerous and unfortunately both sides use them quite a bit. Just because you support saving a baby in the womb doesn't make you a "Bible thumping Jesus freak who hates women's rights", just as being someone who supports abortion doesn't make you a "cold blooded warrior who supports murder." The Right seems to have the KKK support, the left seems to have La Raza, Code Pink and the Black Panthers. All are hate groups on each side. Although both sides have shouted this quite a bit, here in America (and only my opinion), the left has slandered lots of good, hard working people with the name calling and categorizing of beliefs and feelings rather unfairly. There is a claim of tolerance and unity, but then cars are burned, Trump signs are stolen, car windows are broken who have Trump stickers, and property is further vandalized.

Now....that doesn't mean Hillary supporters are doing this. I know plenty and they are hard working good people. None of them would ever burn a car or break windows. These could just be more of George Soros' paid protestors or just people looking for an excuse to cause trouble. There are many peaceful protests but these violent ones are starting to dominate the headlines. And again, I try not to be paranoid about the media, but they are smearing it all over the front pages now. They need something to report, it's their livelihood I know, but they fail to report how Ford's Lincoln division is keeping their plant here instead of moving to Mexico after consulting with Trump, or how Trump obtained 53% more of the minority vote than Romney because he's very much a labor / union guy despite what the media says. He's a NY liberal and has no intentions of erasing gay marriage (he's said so plenty of times) and wants hate crime punishment to increase as attacks on gays, minorities, etc should not be tolerated. I also agreed with an across-the-board Flat Tax, something he's spoken about before and is considering implementing.

I know he's said stupid stuff, and sometimes he seems like a large bag of douches oozing around. But considering we could've had Hillary, someone who took direct funds from countries who murder gays and treat women like dogs, used the same tax loopholes as Trump for her "Foundation" and called young black men "predators", I am willing to give Trump a chance. Run the government like a business and let's see if that helps the economy, make our schools competitive again and help the inner cities with more community programs and job incentives. He has campaigned on all of this. Hillary, IMO only, seemed to pander to the votes, but promised nothing. Trump had his job plans laid out, renegotiating trade deals and surrounding himself with great business minds. Now, whether or not this actually comes to fruition is another story. It's anyone's guess now. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Let's give him a chance and see what happens.

« Last Edit: Nov 18th, 2016, 09:21am by Shipwrecked » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Trump protests
« Reply #28 on: Nov 18th, 2016, 2:18pm »

on Nov 18th, 2016, 07:23am, onetwothree wrote:
Speaking as an American, I can say that that's an extremely unrealistic assessment. It sounds like a media caricature and doesn't describe any meaningful number of actual people.

What I've seen is that most people have not been thrilled with Trump, but have been even less thrilled at the prospect of getting more of what they'd been getting for the last 8 years.


True, but yes, as an american as well I can tell you there are plenty of people I personally know that fit my description. The exact amount of people like this, however, no one knows.
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xx Re: Trump protests
« Reply #29 on: Nov 18th, 2016, 2:38pm »

About the popular vote, most of you act as if New York and California all vote blue (perhaps you have this idea because of the electoral college system?). There are many republicans in these states. I propose to you an alternate scenario: what if you are a democrat in Texas or a republican in New York? Do you think their voice is heard? Beside from representatives, absolutely not.

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