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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Seen Any Good Movies??  (Read 63930 times)
Squigelyfox
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xx Re: Seen Any Good Movies??
« Reply #555 on: May 31st, 2015, 07:15am »

on May 30th, 2015, 03:55am, supernatural wrote:
It could be a "Pride" I suppose


That's Lions.
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« Reply #556 on: Jun 5th, 2015, 3:52pm »

Skyfall – a good Bond movie for the first two-thirds, but spoilt by the final showdown dragging on for far too long.
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« Reply #557 on: Jun 5th, 2015, 5:17pm »

on Jun 5th, 2015, 3:52pm, boredatwork wrote:
Skyfall – a good Bond movie for the first two-thirds, but spoilt by the final showdown dragging on for far too long.


I have to say this is the best Bond film EVER, IMHO...
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« Reply #558 on: Jun 5th, 2015, 5:48pm »

on Jun 5th, 2015, 5:17pm, Andrew Yild4Genesis wrote:
I have to say this is the best Bond film EVER, IMHO...

Nah, that was Goldfinger. The makers of Skyfall should have re-watched that perfect climactic fight scene with Oddjob: just the right length, believable, suspenseful & worked in everything necessary. But if you ditch those essentials, no amount of helicopters, infernos, peat bogs & ruined chapels can really compensate!
The earlier parts were good though, especially Istanbul, making Q a teenage geek & those monstrous lizardy things!
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« Reply #559 on: Jun 6th, 2015, 05:40am »

Bah, I agree with Boredatwork. Skyfall goes off the rails as it nears its finale. And does anyone care that ultimately Bond fails his mission? She dies. All of Bond's plans and actions in the last third of the movie are for nothing. That bugs me. "Bond Saves The World" is a formula that worked for fifty years... I'll stick with that.

BTW, the best Bond film is The Spy Who Loved Me. smiley
« Last Edit: Jun 6th, 2015, 05:41am by Dust » User IP Logged

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« Reply #560 on: Jun 6th, 2015, 09:45am »

on Jun 6th, 2015, 05:40am, Dust wrote:
Bah, I agree with Boredatwork. Skyfall goes off the rails as it nears its finale. And does anyone care that ultimately Bond fails his mission? She dies. All of Bond's plans and actions in the last third of the movie are for nothing. That bugs me. "Bond Saves The World" is a formula that worked for fifty years... I'll stick with that.

BTW, the best Bond film is The Spy Who Loved Me. smiley


Where is the spoiler alert! tongue
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« Reply #561 on: Jun 6th, 2015, 11:25am »

on Jun 5th, 2015, 5:17pm, Andrew Yild4Genesis wrote:
I have to say this is the best Bond film EVER, IMHO...


I agree, though I was never a big Bond fan, but this one really delivers.

And I have to say, I like the showdown, particularly the helicopter downing scene, dramatic and breathtaking, but not too far fetched.
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« Reply #562 on: Jun 6th, 2015, 1:19pm »

on Jun 6th, 2015, 09:45am, Lily wrote:
Where is the spoiler alert! tongue

Spoiler Alerts on three-year-old movies are optional. tongue
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« Reply #563 on: Jun 6th, 2015, 1:32pm »

on Jun 5th, 2015, 3:52pm, boredatwork wrote:
Skyfall


on Jun 5th, 2015, 5:17pm, Andrew Yild4Genesis wrote:
I have to say this is the best Bond film EVER, IMHO...


I agree full heartedly.
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« Reply #564 on: Jun 6th, 2015, 5:45pm »

I have to say I think Skyfall is one of the worst Bond films, for the following reasons:

1. The seriously crap tech. In 2006's Casino Royale, Bond has a tracking device implanted into his arm [painfully], so M can keep track of him. By 2012, MI6's tech has regressed so far, they give him a device which he keeps in his pocket and can switch on and off as he sees fit.

2. The villain's BIG PLAN is to kill M. Seriously, that's it. Not establishing a new master race; not robbing Fort Knox; not even selling more and more drugs; he just wants to kill M. Do I look like I care?

3. The final showdown takes place in Scotland, where the entire MI6 staff - and by extension the UK government - knows what danger M is in. But they leave everything to Bond and the gamekeeper and some Home Alone improvisation. Meanwhile, back in the real world, the RAF maintains a constant patrol of at least two fighters over the North Sea at all times. When the villain approaches with his henchmen in a bloody great helicopter, do the RAF take any notice? No, they say: "Hey, we could divert that fighter and down the chopper in two minutes, but, screw it, we'll let let the bad guy end up killing M."

4. The completely ludicrous London Underground scene. While the select-committee hearing scene was actually a pretty good set piece, the following section where Bond chases Silva into the Underground, and Silva happens to have a spare London Underground train to fall through the roof and [obviously] miss Bond was dire beyond description.

The first few drafts of the Skyfall script may have been pretty good. I still enjoyed the way Silva was written and his motivation made good sense. Much survived the first redrafts of the script into the final film, especially some of the set pieces. But the whole film has far too many plot holes, caused by the financial problems MGM were having at the time.

This is the fundamental contradiction with storytelling, be it novel, short story, or film: you have to convince the audience to suspend their disbelief. To do so, you need to make things as realistic as possible. Only if the audience decides "Yep, I believe that could be true" will they follow the story, no matter how fantastic the end result might be.

The Skyfall screenplay, as with an awful lot of movies, was rewritten way too many times, and the result was a gigantic turd of unbelievable messiness, which asked us to suspend our disbelief way beyond what was reasonable. I'll take Roger More averting a nuclear war, or Hugo Drax wanting to wipe out the Earth's population as easily more believable than the desperate, "Hey! We don't have enough cash in the bank!" rubbish that was Skyfall.

I hope they'll do better with Spectre. After all, the plot is already there. How badly can they screw it up?
« Last Edit: Jun 6th, 2015, 5:53pm by ChrisJamesAuthor » User IP Logged

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« Reply #565 on: Jun 6th, 2015, 6:10pm »

on Jun 6th, 2015, 5:45pm, ChrisJamesAuthor wrote:
I have to say I think Skyfall is one of the worst Bond films, for the following reasons:

1. The seriously crap tech. In 2006's Casino Royale, Bond has a tracking device implanted into his arm [painfully], so M can keep track of him. By 2012, MI6's tech has regressed so far, they give him a device which he keeps in his pocket and can switch on and off as he sees fit.


That’s one of the most plausible things in the film, given that since the general election here in 2010 there have been enormous spending cuts, especially in the defence budget..... wink
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« Reply #566 on: Jun 6th, 2015, 8:10pm »

on Jun 6th, 2015, 5:45pm, ChrisJamesAuthor wrote:
I have to say I think Skyfall is one of the worst Bond films, for the following reasons:

1. The seriously crap tech. In 2006's Casino Royale, Bond has a tracking device implanted into his arm [painfully], so M can keep track of him. By 2012, MI6's tech has regressed so far, they give him a device which he keeps in his pocket and can switch on and off as he sees fit.

2. The villain's BIG PLAN is to kill M. Seriously, that's it. Not establishing a new master race; not robbing Fort Knox; not even selling more and more drugs; he just wants to kill M. Do I look like I care?

3. The final showdown takes place in Scotland, where the entire MI6 staff - and by extension the UK government - knows what danger M is in. But they leave everything to Bond and the gamekeeper and some Home Alone improvisation. Meanwhile, back in the real world, the RAF maintains a constant patrol of at least two fighters over the North Sea at all times. When the villain approaches with his henchmen in a bloody great helicopter, do the RAF take any notice? No, they say: "Hey, we could divert that fighter and down the chopper in two minutes, but, screw it, we'll let let the bad guy end up killing M."

4. The completely ludicrous London Underground scene. While the select-committee hearing scene was actually a pretty good set piece, the following section where Bond chases Silva into the Underground, and Silva happens to have a spare London Underground train to fall through the roof and [obviously] miss Bond was dire beyond description.

The first few drafts of the Skyfall script may have been pretty good. I still enjoyed the way Silva was written and his motivation made good sense. Much survived the first redrafts of the script into the final film, especially some of the set pieces. But the whole film has far too many plot holes, caused by the financial problems MGM were having at the time.

This is the fundamental contradiction with storytelling, be it novel, short story, or film: you have to convince the audience to suspend their disbelief. To do so, you need to make things as realistic as possible. Only if the audience decides "Yep, I believe that could be true" will they follow the story, no matter how fantastic the end result might be.

The Skyfall screenplay, as with an awful lot of movies, was rewritten way too many times, and the result was a gigantic turd of unbelievable messiness, which asked us to suspend our disbelief way beyond what was reasonable. I'll take Roger More averting a nuclear war, or Hugo Drax wanting to wipe out the Earth's population as easily more believable than the desperate, "Hey! We don't have enough cash in the bank!" rubbish that was Skyfall.

I hope they'll do better with Spectre. After all, the plot is already there. How badly can they screw it up?


Umm, you do know it's a movie right?
By its standards, the plot is waaay more believable than other early Bond films..
Case in point, Moonraker...
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« Reply #567 on: Jun 6th, 2015, 9:04pm »

on Jun 6th, 2015, 1:19pm, Dust wrote:
Spoiler Alerts on three-year-old movies are optional. tongue

Yup.

on Jun 6th, 2015, 8:10pm, Andrew Yild4Genesis wrote:
Umm, you do know it's a movie right?
By its standards, the plot is waaay more believable than other early Bond films..
Case in point, Moonraker...

Yup.
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« Reply #568 on: Jun 7th, 2015, 3:43pm »

on Jun 6th, 2015, 8:10pm, Andrew Yild4Genesis wrote:
Umm, you do know it's a movie right?
By its standards, the plot is waaay more believable than other early Bond films..
Case in point, Moonraker...


Absolutely agree about Moonraker, but nothing happens in a vacuum, and that was the producers cashing in on the Star Wars mania of the day. Two things here, however. Firstly, when any actor approaches the end of his stint as Bond, the films have descended into something close to parody, and Moonraker was definitely close to that, even though Moore would return one last time. Secondly, it's also about the competition: the Bond producers today have to contend with much more these days: Bourne, Mission Impossible, et al, so when they say something like, "We're going to make Bond more realistic, more gritty" then I expect that.

More often than not, they're on the money. Casino Royale was a terrific reinvention of Bond for the 21st century (and is, imo, the last proper Bond film). Quantum was, more or less, Bond going through a computer game for the ADHD generation. Apart from a few good set pieces, Skyfall lost it altogether, sadly.
« Last Edit: Jun 7th, 2015, 3:44pm by ChrisJamesAuthor » User IP Logged

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« Reply #569 on: Jun 7th, 2015, 4:00pm »

on Jun 7th, 2015, 3:43pm, ChrisJamesAuthor wrote:
... Moonraker was definitely close to that, even though Moore would return one last time.

No, three times actually. For Your Eyes Only, Octupussy, and A View to A Kill, the latter two of which were particularly dismal.
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